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generator-regulator-battery

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charles
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:47 pm

generator-regulator-battery

#1

Post by charles » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:18 pm

Hello at all,
I would have needs some councils, I am in process to pass my 51'Panhead in 12V. I would like to keep the appearance of origin and so to install a V-Tronic electronic regulator 12 V , but in this case, which generator Cycles-electric I do use, and which battery for the unit is coherent? Thank you for your assistance.
I benefit from it to especially thank Cotten for his messages about the PEEK seals and Panacea for his response to my mp about the CV 40.
Bye and sorry for my bad american if I make some mistakes.



Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

#2

Post by Cotten » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:35 pm

Charles!

CycleElectric makes a special "low-voltage" regulator for batteries that are heated by an oiltank: CE-102L

I suggest avoiding the end-mount regulators if you desire an original appearance; the "box' regulators can be easily hidden on a bracket beneath the generator.

You will find that the later 2-brush generators have 5/16"-24 bolt holes, but your motorcase has 1/4" holes. The solution is to install 1/4"-24 Helicoils into the generator's 5/16" holes. No tapping is necessary.

Good luck!

....Cotten

pandit
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:43 pm

12V my way

#3

Post by pandit » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:04 pm

On my 61' DuoGlide I have:

Image

and

Image

and

Image

best regards
Pandit

fourthgear
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:12 pm
Location: north florida

#4

Post by fourthgear » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:56 pm

charles
If you want to keep that OEM look , then do as described in the above posts , no problem , but go to a better Battery , those 5.5 amp., acid filled type don't last too long . Lucky people get a year out of them . Go to a AGM batt. . That is an Absorbed Glass Mat battery . You can get a good amp. output so you can put more lights and things on . The standard Cycle Electric Generator has a good output and will not effect the AGM batt. in the oil tank. We put them in side ways with some blocks of wood or what ever , so they don't rattle around. You can place them any way, but up side down and they work fine . I have a 10amp. ,its side ways and I've had it in there for two years and it still shows 12.8 + Volts, even if the bike sits for a week .I have the standard CE gen. with there end mount electronic regulator and have had no problems , its a beautiful set up.

King
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:05 pm

#5

Post by King » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:48 pm

Pandit

Super trick idea with the battery in the battery. I’m going to do the 12V conversion this winter on my 51FL and am shopping around for ideas. What 12V battery are you using and what is its amps rating? Is the Cycle Electric genny the high or low output? Also what did you use to replace the terminals in the junction box?

Thanks

King

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

#6

Post by Cotten » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:16 pm

First, a note on end-mounted regulators:
The footclutch (such as on Charles' '51) will have to be shimmed out considerably to clear the regulator (changing your lean on the kickstand, etc.)

And they are ugly!

Second, about batteries:
The 12n-5.5A-3b battery should never be trusted for more than a season, even if its a premium Yuasa that might make it two or more (in a low-voltage system).
The reason for distrust is not the battery itself, but the consequences of having one fail on the road: The armature overheats. A discharged battery should never be charged by running the machine.)

So battery choices hinge upon your willingness to risk seeing how long you can run on an expensive battery... hoping that it fails gracefully when it does! A sudden death means meltdown, burnt points on mechanical regulators, a ride in a truck, etc.

Consider also that many machines do not see high mileage every season, so pennies-per-mile turn into dollars per minute for some collector's classics. A $30 cheapo battery at the start of each riding season can serve 'weekend warriors' quite well, especially since the First Law of Batteries is that they are nearly always older than we remember them to be!

....Cotten

pandit
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:43 pm

#7

Post by pandit » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:57 pm

Hello
It's a12V 5.5Ah battery and a CE LOW charge regulator.

Image

Pandit

fourthgear
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:12 pm
Location: north florida

#8

Post by fourthgear » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:23 pm

The problems I see with low amp battery's are ,you are always using more amps than they and or the charging system can keep up with,depending on what you have for a charging system ( in Florida we have to run lights all the time) and you are limited to what you can use on the bike ( higher output head lights for one , for safety on today's high traffic roads and thoroughfares ) The capability of the newer type of electronic regulators and the up grade to one of the Cycle Electric generators can cope with any battery you can put in a OEM type oil tank and with a AGM battery it will not over heat it , unlike a std. acid battery that can cook in that tank and the probability of it puking acid on parts of your vintage machine.
The way to keep you from running into trouble with any battery is constant monitoring of battery voltage , the batt. its self, by losing voltage will tell you if its not charging or is going bad and that's the time to do some thing about it , not wait till your on the side of the road voltless.
Time will tell how good or bad the AGM battery's are and so far if you are talking about money , I have two years in a $ 65.00 battery , well lets see what that works out to, hum , you get the point , plus I have not had to touch it , how much is that worth.
I do use a batt. tender once in a while and some times leave it on until I get ready to ride , but not all the time .

john HD
Moderator
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:24 pm
Bikes: '42 WLA X 2, '55FL, '93 Ultra Classic, '91 Fatboy, '97 883, '71 Suzuki Duster 125, '83 GPz 750.

#9

Post by john HD » Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:21 am

i still don't see the advantage in 12volt conversions or glass mat batteries for that matter.

that is of course if you cannot find 6 volt bulbs.

mine is as bright as any 12 volt bike. and sure my battery costs 90 to 100 dollars. however i got ten years out of my last one. and am on year 5 on this one.

works out to about ten bucks a year for batteries. my original one would have lasted longer if i wasn't a dummy and tried to run it without the proper rubber pads on it. i broke the case on it out of neglect on my part.

all it takes to run a 6 volt bike is a little extra work in selecting the right gauge wire when you put it together with clean connections. and taking a couple of seconds each month to check the water level. removal and cleaning in the winter helps prolong life too.

john

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

#10

Post by Cotten » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:13 am

JohnHD is absolutely correct that 6 volts can be every bit as bright as 12volts. (Two-brush systems, that is..)
Converting is a personal decision that usually revolves around convenience, plus the cost of a 6v batteries replaced at sensible intervals..

To avoid confusion: CE's replacement generators do not provide more amps than original units. They provide the same amperage, as they are of the same design.
(Some of the hardware is even produced on the original machinery, so I wuz told.)
The 12v system provides plenty of amps, unless you insist on running your passing lamps constantly, or your hi-fi plus your cellphone charger, etc.
(The accessories on a dresser will always multiply until they exceed the available amperage. I had nine forward lights once: The road looked like a landing strip.. for about four minutes.)

For ultimate concealment of the upgrade, I believe http://www.45partsdepot.com/index.php offers earlier relay assemblies with a regulator enclosed, as well as complete generators of replica 32e appearance.

So there are many many ways to skin the cat.

...Cotten

pandit
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:43 pm

#11

Post by pandit » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:51 pm

If there is no advantage in 12V, why have we that since about 50 yaers?

Pandit

Fixman
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:38 pm
Location: Charlottesville, VA

#12

Post by Fixman » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:30 pm

Here is my humble opinion on 6 versus 12 volt systems. Harley stayed with the 6 volt system until the 1965 model which, of course, had an electric starter. The batteries went from 22 amp for the 6 volt system to 32 amp for the 12 volt system. In order to get the needed power would have required a huge 6 volt battery. Even the 12 volt battery was massive compared to new technology 12 volt batteries.

For kick start only bikes, 6 volt works just fine. Now an alternator is a whole different game, and really a nice thing to have.

Kent

john HD
Moderator
Posts: 3669
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:24 pm
Bikes: '42 WLA X 2, '55FL, '93 Ultra Classic, '91 Fatboy, '97 883, '71 Suzuki Duster 125, '83 GPz 750.

#13

Post by john HD » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:20 am

kent

i totally agree. and i was speaking in reference to kick only bikes.

john

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

#14

Post by Cotten » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:39 am

Just for perspective:

Harley's first production electric starts were for Servicars in '64. This was the same year they were concentrating on things like golf carts, and a milder customer demographic.

And don't forget the lowly kick-start sportsters were soon converted as well; It had nothing to do with the starting system. When you consider that HD didn't know what a relay was (just four years before the USA put a man on the moon); and the auto-advance circuit breaker took four years to perfect, we are damn lucky that Panheads weren't issued with copper and iron nails in a grapefruit for a battery.

12 volt systems had economic manufacturing benefits, like less copper for wires, cheap MASS-produced auto horns, auto signalflashers and breakers, etc. HD's suppliers were all going 12volt.

From a rider viewpoint, 12v systems have the advantage of forgiving repair splices and terminal corrosion much better than 6v. At roughly half the amperage, wires fry slower upon a dead short. There are other quotable advantages, but by my experience they are still hearsay: 6 volts works pretty good, which is probably why there aren't many 24volt systems on bikes.



....Cotten

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pandit
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:43 pm

#15

Post by pandit » Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:04 am

@Cotten
That's it, my words (but not in english :( )

Pandit

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