tried to start, the neutral light went out, button quit

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nels
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tried to start, the neutral light went out, button quit

#1

Post by nels » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:53 am

Hello All
have been lurking for a while not much of a poster
just brought home a 65 FLH tryed to start her and after a few trys the neutral light went out and the button quite working
I can jump the solenoid and she will turn over fine but no juice to the button
just wondering about the neutral light in relationship to the electric button



steve_wood
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Re: new panhead

#2

Post by steve_wood » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:45 pm

The neutral light, switch, and starter button are definitely related. I'll try and isolate those parts of the circuits later today.

In the mean time, check under the dash and in the headlight cowl patch panel to see if you have any defective wires or connections.

steve

Cotten
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Re: new panhead

#3

Post by Cotten » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:26 pm

Nels!

If your machine is like it left the Factory, they had no clue what a relay was.

Look under the battery to see if it has been sensibly updated (usually bolted to a kickercover stud), as a relay is a likely culprit, and easily replaced.

....Cotten

Pomike
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Re: new panhead

#4

Post by Pomike » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:24 pm

On my 65 FLH Harley, the neutral light has nothing to do with the starter circuit. Like Tom says, look for the relay. The early 65's didn't have it and ran full juice right through the handlebars. Not good. They were retrofitted by dealers, and owners. I would look to see if it has a circuit breaker, also. If it doesn't, I would add one. The parts book lists the kit. They usually go on the back or bottom of the battery tray. Thankfully, the 65 wiring is still simple enough for even a dummy like me.
Mike

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Re: new panhead

#5

Post by steve_wood » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:59 pm

Okay, my drawing skills aren't that great, but this simple diagram will do. The power comes from the ignition switch and goes to the neutral switch. Provided that switch is closed (trans in neutral), power gets to BOTH the neutral light and the starter button. When the button is closed, power gets to the solenoid. This causes is to close and complete the circuit from the positive terminal of the battery to the starter motor.

So if you ain't getting power to the neutral light, you ain't getting power to the solenoid!

This is from the 65 Electra Glide diagram in the Clymers manual. From the comments in this thread, it sure sounds like not all 65s were wired this way.

Let us know how you make out!

steve
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steve_wood
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Re: new panhead

#6

Post by steve_wood » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:52 pm

Here's another thought: What if the neutral switch is failing "open", or if the wires going to the switch are failing "open"? That would cause the neutral light to go out, and if the circuit diagram is correct, it would prevent power from getting to the starter button, solenoid and motor.

Try placing a jumper across the two posts (41 and 42) of the rear connection panel. That will bypass the switch (and wires) and eliminate that as a possibility.

steve

nels
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Re: new panhead

#7

Post by nels » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:38 am

Thanks for all your thought and replies
just goes to show how useful this board is
I am working late right now but will try to get back to the bike this weekend
pretty cool here in minnesota now

Steve
are you talking about the circuit board behind the coil??
I don't have a manual yet so I'm not sure what pins are which
just ordered a harley manual last night

my bike is not an early production I don't think because the # is 11812
but not sure about that either
Thanks again every body


Nels

steve_wood
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Re: new panhead

#8

Post by steve_wood » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:36 am

Nels:

Yes that should be it! Mines a 56, but I'm guessing that the 65 has the board in the same position.

As for the pins, just find out which two terminate the wires from the neutral switch and jump them together.

steve

nels
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Re: new panhead

#9

Post by nels » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:35 am

Steve

you were right
I had a bad connection to my neutral switch, one of the wires going to the switch had a loose little spring clamp so I cleaned the switch and tightened up the little spring clips and she's as good as new

my starter circuit needs the wires to the neutral switch to be connected before my button will work
now shes back in business

Thanks Nels :D

steve_wood
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Re: new panhead

#10

Post by steve_wood » Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:36 am

Good stuff.

Doesn't this website rock?

steve

Panacea
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Re: new panhead

#11

Post by Panacea » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:12 am

Nels, the neutral switch, in series, keeps one from cranking the motor unless it's in neutral, thus avoiding an embarassing spill when leaving the watering hole....Mike

Pomike
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Re: new panhead

#12

Post by Pomike » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:49 am

Are you guys sure about the neutral switch being in the loop for the starter? I would check the wiring on mine, but it is put away in the back shed for now. Mine isn"t that way, and it is pretty much original. It does have the starter relay, which the early 65's didn't. I don't know what VIN number is the changeover point for the factory doing it, as opposed to the dealer or owner. Even my 84 dresser, and 94 Sporty are not that way. I didn't think HD started with the neutral safety wiring until the late 90's. Of course, I could be wrong. I do know, that since my rebuild, last winter, my neutral light doesn't come on because it is worn, or I need to make an adjustment, which I haven't got to yet. But it does work if I wiggle the linkage, and the starter cranks right on over whether the light switch is making contact or not.
Mike

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Re: new panhead

#13

Post by FlatHeadSix » Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:36 am

Mike,
I'm pretty sure that all the relay equipped factory bikes have the starter button wired in series with the neutral switch. My wife's, late model servi will not start unless it is in neutral. The neutral switch on the transmission supplies power to both the starter button and the neutral light. It would be possible for the starter button to work and the neutral light not work because the feed to both those components from the switch on the transmission is parallel and not in series; there are 2 separate wires coming from the transmission switch. If some part of the neutral light circuit is faulty, bad bulb, bad socket, poor ground, etc., the light will not work but you would still have power to the starter button and then to the relay.

mike

steve_wood
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Re: new panhead

#14

Post by steve_wood » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:51 pm

Pomike:

The standard wiring diagram for 65 FL shows the neutral switch and starter button in series. But that diagram also shows a solenoid which would seem to contradict what Cotten says about how some 65s left the factory without solenoids.

I would offer that it is entirely possible to for both to be correct. Perhaps the early 65s did not have solenoids and the later ones did?

steve

Cotten
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Re: new panhead

#15

Post by Cotten » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:43 pm

Steve!

Solenoids?
I don't remember posting that, unless I mentioned somewhere that ran one of my chassis for many years as an electric start without a solenoid: I fashioned a pull-knob switch that eliminated all wiring but from the battery to the starter.
If accidentally in gear, it would propel the machine.

I posted that they were not issued with relays. There is no tab upon the battery tray to mount one.

....Cotten
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