Electical challenge

Electrical issues
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fragrep
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Electical challenge

#1

Post by fragrep » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:02 pm

I hope someone can help me. The battery died in my 1950 pan (converted to 12 volt). I replaced it with a 12 volt, 5.5 amp battery. Then I discovered that it was not charging so I replaced the generator and regulator (custom chrome). When I test the battery at 1500 rpm there is appx 15 volts. I rode the bike for appx 30 minutes and the lights drew all the power. I checked the regulator and discovered that the (hot) wire from the regulator to the ignition switch had disconnected from the regulator at the point of solder. I soldered it back then it happened again! (yes I can solder. I gave it a good tug test).
What is the deal? I'm going broke replacing stuff!
All help is greatly appreciated!



jed
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Re: Electical challenge

#2

Post by jed » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:03 pm

Not sure what you mean when you say "it happened again". Back to the lights drawing all the power? Are you running head and tail lights only? When you installed the gen and reg, did you flash the generator for polarity? This might not be your problem, but it needs to be done every time there is a break in your primary circut, assuming you have a stock style 12v gen.

kell
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Re: Electical challenge

#3

Post by kell » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:32 am

Is the regulator mechanical or solid state?

fragrep
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Re: Electical challenge

#4

Post by fragrep » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:01 pm

The "hot" lead from the regulator to the ignition switch has come disconnected from the solder point (at the regulator) twice! (I soldered it back on...rode her then it came undone again)!
Regulator is solid state. ?

Pantony
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Re: Electical challenge

#5

Post by Pantony » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:07 pm

Sounds to me likeyou have a problem with the size of the battery as compared to the generator. If you are getting 15 volts (number 1) the battery is fully charged and the energy has to do something so it stats to create heat (hence the melted solder). Your charging rate is way too high and I would assume it is much too much for that little 5.5ah battery (as in Amp-Hours, not "amps"). Remmember that battery was designed for a Polaris 4-wheeler and the generator you have may have been designed for a large 65 Pan 12 volt battery, big difference. I'm sure you soldered the connection alright, it just happened to "un-solder" itself though a high charge rate. Your lights probably "drew all the power" because your battery or regulator connection was already open at that point. Check your charging rate at 1500rpm with an Amprobe (as in "Amps") could be your regulator is not throttling the voltage down. Yes I know it's a new regulator but it could be defective. My advice (you aren't going to like it) put it back to 6 Volts; "like God and Harley-Davidson intendid". My 48FL starts first kick after primeing and never misses a beat when running (point ignition) and I have a Cycleray headlight and 2 passing lamps on as well with no problems

fragrep
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Re: Electical challenge

#6

Post by fragrep » Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:15 pm

I stand corrected in one area. My charging rate is (was) 13.7 amp hours not 15 as earlier stated. Soldered that lead back on AGAIN and she either heated up and came undone or???
Could it be that I am polarizing incorrectly? I tried returning the generator and regulator to the HD dealer where I purchased but they dont accept returns on electronics. Am I stuck?

kell
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Re: Electical challenge

#7

Post by kell » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:01 am

does the regulator have wires sticking out of it, or screw terminals?

fragrep
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Re: Electical challenge

#8

Post by fragrep » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:05 pm

Wires. It's a custom chrome solid state regulator that mounts to the end of the generator, a chrome cover hides it.

fourthgear
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Re: Electical challenge

#9

Post by fourthgear » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:09 pm

fragrep
You say the wire that goes to the ign. switch? It should got to the rear term. board # 39 which has one wire to the ign. switch and another to the batt.. That probably isn't a problem if the reg. batt. wire goes to the ign. switch and from there to the batt. , but ya never know.There is nothing wrong with going to 12V , it is a better system voltage to run things with or every thing wouldn't be twelve volts ,now would it .
You could have a short thats making that wire melt down ( re-check your wiring, )or as been said a defective part . That 5.5 A batt. is notorious for over heating , and over charging in the oil tank environment and std. out put voltage regulator. If you intend to keep that low amp. batt. go to the Cycle Electric low out put reg.. There are a lot of better batt s. out there just look up old threads here about what others have installed .
Are you sure the reg. is wired to the right term. on the gen. and that the reg. is properly grounded. My CE gen./reg. (std output ) puts out 14.2 volts @ 2000 rpms.( right on with CE specs.) with a 10 amp. absorbed glass mat batt.. good luck.

kell
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Re: Electical challenge

#10

Post by kell » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:01 pm

My charging rate is (was) 13.7 amp hours not 15 as earlier stated
.

The terminology is getting all mixed up to the extent that it will impede communication. Can you throttle down and tell us what you measured? Current flows in amps, not amp hours. Only battery capacity is stated in amp hours.
Did you use an ammeter and measure charging current at 13.7 amps... or maybe you meant to say you measured 13.7 volts? Earlier you said something about 15 volts...

fragrep
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Re: Electical challenge

#11

Post by fragrep » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:02 pm

O.K. Here's the deal. As you can see I am not very well versed on electrical and electricity. Today I installed a YUASA 12 volt 11.2 amp hour battery . I re soldered that damn hot lead to the regulator. When everthing is off the battery shows 12.5 volts. At apx 3000rpm the battery showed charging at 14.5 volts. (Im not smart enough to know how to measure amps). I rode her for 15 minutes. tested the battery and it showed still charging when I brought the rpm up. (Generator is working). Continued riding another 20 min then checked again. Not charging. I Temp gunned the generator 194F. Removed the chrome regulator cover, and sure enough the hot lead to the regulator was loose. (Almost as if the heat is melting the solder. Can 194F melt solder?

mbskeam
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Re: Electical challenge

#12

Post by mbskeam » Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:19 pm

butt splice it and put a sleeve of shrink tubing over it.
but beware if you do have "other" problems this will lead you to the next weakest link that will fail.

14.5 is okay

I think there are low temp solder out there. you could try a diff brand , one that has a higher melting point.
I bet its hotter under the cover than you think.

mbskeam

kell
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Re: Electical challenge

#13

Post by kell » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:13 pm

I really don't think your new generator gets hot enough to melt solder!
I'm guessing your solder joint was bad.
12 or 14 gauge wire will suck all the heat from the tip of a lightweight soldering iron before it can get the surfaces hot enough for the solder to bond.
A good solder connection should look shiny and perfectly smooth. If the solder on your two wires looked clumpy or frosty it's no good.
Use a butt crimp connector like MbSkeam suggested. Even a wire nut is superior to a bad solder joint.
Any time I have to solder two wires together that are 14 gauge or bigger, I use a mini butane torch. Even with the pointy blue flame on, it takes 5 or ten seconds to do the job properly, the bigger the wire the longer it takes. At first the solder melts but it just sits on the outside of the twisted wires mostly. Keep the flame on it and after a few seconds you will see the solder get sucked into the bundle of wire filaments. Then rotate the wire and put some more solder on the other side.

Sidecar
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Re: Electical challenge

#14

Post by Sidecar » Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:33 pm

I think Silversolder has a higher temperature melt point ?

kell
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Re: Electical challenge

#15

Post by kell » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:44 pm

Think about it.
I bet those wires have ordinary vinyl insulation.
It's farfetched to think that a generator or voltage regulator could produce so much heat it could travel down a wire and melt solder without even melting the insulation on that wire. And if your shit ever does get that hot you're gonna know it one way or another. We're talking about the melting point of solder here: 360 degrees faehrenheit.
And a solder "joint" that looks like the dingleberries on Gnarly Moe's butt will not hold anything together better than scotch tape. I'm pretty sure it was just vibration that made those wires loose.
Crimp.

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