solenoid problem

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65eglide
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solenoid problem

#1

Post by 65eglide » Sun May 23, 2010 7:29 pm

what would cause me to burn out 2 solenoids in a couple of months.
first one i figure was crap jap made, but second was american made and heavier, just replaced it last month, only started the bike 5-6 times and it's burnt again.



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Re: solenoid problem

#2

Post by NightShift » Sun May 23, 2010 9:30 pm

65eglide wrote:what would cause me to burn out 2 solenoids in a couple of months.
first one i figure was crap jap made, but second was american made and heavier, just replaced it last month, only started the bike 5-6 times and it's burnt again.
Dear 65eglide,
Genuine Japanese can mean its good. Like batteries. USA made doesn't mean anything like it used to. Those days are gone. Now you cant even trust the box not to lie.
Are you swapping out the whole solenoid or just the burnt contacts? Its a whole lot cheaper that way. I just flip the disc over and scrape the studs.
Is oil or water getting in? Does your starter drag like the battery is pooping out? How long do you have to crank on it before the motor starts?

Hope to help,

65eglide
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Re: solenoid problem

#3

Post by 65eglide » Sun May 23, 2010 10:47 pm

NightShift wrote:
65eglide wrote:what would cause me to burn out 2 solenoids in a couple of months.
first one i figure was crap jap made, but second was american made and heavier, just replaced it last month, only started the bike 5-6 times and it's burnt again.
Dear 65eglide,
Genuine Japanese can mean its good. Like batteries. USA made doesn't mean anything like it used to. Those days are gone. Now you cant even trust the box not to lie.
Are you swapping out the whole solenoid or just the burnt contacts? Its a whole lot cheaper that way. I just flip the disc over and scrape the studs.
Is oil or water getting in? Does your starter drag like the battery is pooping out? How long do you have to crank on it before the motor starts?

Hope to help,
tried flipping the disk over,scraping the studs , same thing nothing, no oil or water dry inside. no drag does not even throw out the starter gear, just a click
checked starter terminal on it, when starter button pushed and checked that terminal not even putting out 1 volt to the starter, checked the starter direct to battery works fine.
also seems to be getting hot to the touch. applied power direct to the solenoid nothing, not even throwing out the rod. like i said this is the second one in as many months

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Re: solenoid problem

#4

Post by Bosheff » Mon May 24, 2010 2:27 am

Is this a genuine H-D solenoid, or an aftermarket piece, and if an aftermarket, who's name is on the box?....bosheff

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Re: solenoid problem

#5

Post by cole » Mon May 24, 2010 6:58 am

Check your starter relay. cole

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Re: solenoid problem

#6

Post by 65eglide » Tue May 25, 2010 8:38 pm

well I'm stumped even further, replaced with a new solenoid, still same thing just a click.
when I put a meter to the terminal that goes to the starter, same thing only reading about 1 volt
after readjusting the solenoid so it's flush with the housing it now throws out the starter gear, but nothing to the starter, if I apply 12 volts direct to the starter it spins, but measuring from the solenoid terminal nothing

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Re: solenoid problem

#7

Post by john HD » Wed May 26, 2010 1:48 am

cables ok?

john

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Re: solenoid problem

#8

Post by RUBONE » Wed May 26, 2010 2:19 am

The solenoid is nothing more than a magnetic switch. Is the plunger and fork free to move on the starter drive shaft? Will it engage the ring gear? If the plunger does not come all the way in it cannot push the plunger to complete the circuit and energize the starter. You can bypass the relay easily enough as well as the starter button. If current is applied directly to the solenoid relay post it should kick in and engage the starter. If it does not I would look deeper into the system as far as the drive or shaft go. If the drive is frozen it will not engage correctly. If it does not move freely on the shaft it will not work. If the fork is screwed up it can bind. My suspicion is that it is not solenoids at all but something deeper. The relay will click even though the solenoid is doing nothing. And if it is bound up and current is continually applied, it will fry the windings. JMHO
Robbie

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Re: solenoid problem

#9

Post by 65eglide » Wed May 26, 2010 3:53 am

well let me start from the very begining of what has gone on.
bike was starting fine, then what would happen was hitting the starter button, I could hear the starter energizing and spinning the starter gear but not thowing it out to the ring gear, just a whine, spinning the starter drive shaft and starter gear, this would go on 3-4 times then finally thowing out the starter gear and bike would start.
so after talking this over with someone they tell me it was the starter gear. (I suspected the solenoid ) so I replaced the starter drive shaft and starter gear, after hooking everything back up, still using the same solenoid all i heard was a click as it was trying to throw out the starter gear, but not energizing the starter.
so i decided to replace the solenoid just to be sure . same thing it's just trying to throw the gear out. measured voltage on the solenoid at the battery terminal looks fine, tried hitting the starter button and measured the voltage at the starter terminal on the solenoid, only about 1 volts. so i disconnect the cable at the solenoid for the starter and applied 12 volts directly to this , starter energizes and turns drive shaft and starter gear fine, so no binding there and cable seems fine. I also got the kit that replaces the plunger, both springs and pins etc. I did notice that the run out spring seems to be bigger and a little stiffer than the one that was already there, though maybe that was a problem , but it seems to throw out the gear fine. as a last check I did cross the starter terminal with the battery terminal on the solenoid and it did seem to work at that point both starter gear throw out and starter energized like it was trying to crank the motor, but after trying it a couple more times after that all it did was spin the starter, drive shaft and starter gear. the original solenoid that was replaced was just replaced a month or so ago, can't believe I got two bad solenoids, pulling my hair out over this and to why there is no voltage to the starter terminal

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Re: solenoid problem

#10

Post by RUBONE » Wed May 26, 2010 5:13 am

Still sounds mechanical and not electrical to me. If the plunger is not pushing the contact plate far enough into the solenoid body it CANNOT make contact across the posts. Therefore there is no power at the starter side. I would begin with the starter shaft and compare it to the old one to make sure it is exactly correct. If it is aftermarket it is suspect. Why was it replaced anyway, the drive unit is usually all that fails, and then usually due to the timer advance unit not working correctly? If the assembly does not move over its entire range of travel it can never work. Since the starter will spin under full current you have eliminated it. If the plunger is moving all the way you can determine if it is making the contact by removing the starter cable and disconnecting the drive gear. Just let the plunger pivot on the fork and apply current to the relay post on the solenoid., with a meter hooked to the starter post. If it slams in and makes contact you should have full voltage at the starter post. If it does and then does not after it is reconnected to the shaft and gear there is a travel problem to address.
Good luck,(and pictures would help).
Robbie

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Re: solenoid problem

#11

Post by 65eglide » Wed May 26, 2010 4:51 pm

well it does seem to be the starter shaft, after taking everything apart and just running the shaft with no starter gear, fork moved and spun starter.
so i removed housing and shaft reseated it and installed everything else. then it did seem to work as it should, so wouldn't ya know i reinstalled everything
worked a few times then just a click again. now i have to find out why it's doing this. wonder if the forks are somehow not aligned right when it throws out the gear. i did notice that a few times after starting the bike it seems I'm hearing a clunking sound as if the starter gear is still engaging on the ring gear and when the motor is shut off and theres no power it's releasing it. it did this a few times now it's back to just a a click again

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Re: solenoid problem

#12

Post by 65eglide » Thu May 27, 2010 2:45 am

my first hunch seemed to be right, i replaced the stiffer run out spring that came with the new plunger assembly with the one that I original had,,presto works fine now.
seems that stiffer spring would not allow the plunger to fully seat inside the solenoid to create the circuit to really throw out the starter gear, soon as i replaced it and tried it,now turns over like it was suppsed to

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