Generator ID questions

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Saintly
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Generator ID questions

#1

Post by Saintly » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:33 pm

I'm putting together a pan engine and I'm just about done.
I got to the poin t where I had to install the generator and I've got a couple issues that I cant figure.

First, the generator drive gear does not mesh with the generator or timer gear. It fits in the motor, spins nicely on the shaft, shim & spacer are installed, but its like the diameter is wrong.

It should mesh like this:
Image

But it misses entirely like this:
Image

Were there two different ratios? perhaps I got something mis- matched?

2nd question, I dissasembled & cleaned the gen. Now I want to bench test it. Factory manual says
to do this with a battery and an ammeter. Then it hits me: I don't know if this is a 6 or a 12 volt gen.

It has 5/16" mount holes, and field terminal is oriented clockwise from the arm terminal as viewed from the end cap, but no other #'s on the main casing.

Factory manual shows two posible wiring layouts:
Image

But, mine is like neither of them. Mine is as follows:
Image

What gives? What do I have here?

Thanks for any help,
Fritz St.Mire



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Re: Generator ID questions

#2

Post by Cotten » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:58 pm

Fritz!

I think that's one of the two kinds of Flatty idler gear, which are smaller than OHV idlers.

Generators always confuse me. When there were no stamped markings on the outside of the body, I just went on to the next one!

...Cotten

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Re: Generator ID questions

#3

Post by steinauge » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:55 pm

The OHV single cam engines used a 13 tooth generator gear while the XL models used a 14 tooth gear.I cant see your pics but that may be your problem .Also as Cotten says you might have the smaller flathead idler gear.OOPS-! I missed "or timer gear" you definitely have a flathead idler gear.Do check the # of teeth on your gen gear too.

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Re: Generator ID questions

#4

Post by Cotten » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:00 pm

Steinauge!

Got your Palmer's handy?

Its the other way around on the tooth count, and a sportster gear is just fine on a machine with very tall sprockets.

Some early police units with clutched gears were thirteen. The idlers were all the same for OHVs, which is an enigma to me;
Just like everything else about generators.

So sporsters add perhaps another idler gear? I keep trying to forget about sportsters.


....Cotten

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Re: Generator ID questions

#5

Post by steinauge » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:29 pm

Cotten,you confused me for a bit so I went back in the shop and counted idler gear teeth on a 52 FL-51 teeth,a 54 FL-51 teeth,a 42 WLA-46 teeth,a 71 XL-46 teeth,and,just because it was there a 36 VLH-42 teeth.XLs do use a 14 tooth generator gear and so do both the flatheads I have access to the generators on right now.OHV single cam big twins use a 13 tooth gear up through 69.I remember a fellow who put an FL generator on his WL(gear and all) some years back.He managed to get the bolts in (after drilling the case holes) and it sounded like a bucket of loose bolts when it ran.I reckon I am still confused-it sure looks like the 4 cam idler is smaller than the single cam idler?????Like Shifty says,respectful,Kurt

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Re: Generator ID questions

#6

Post by Cotten » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:18 pm

Steinauge!

So Mr. Palmer is wrong?
(page 370)

My contention is that either will service.

....Cotten
Where is the night shift anyway? He's behind on earning a roof over his head. Way behind.
There was a strange bike locked up out back for a few days,... maybe he's gone for good this time!
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Re: Generator ID questions

#7

Post by panhead » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:27 pm

Delivering pizza's?

john HD
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Re: Generator ID questions

#8

Post by john HD » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:37 pm

panhead wrote:Delivering pizza's?

nope, i'd bet it is the latest delivery of super double top secret carb float foam.

saintly,

can you give us a shot of the cam chest with the parts you have?

john

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Re: Generator ID questions

#9

Post by Cotten » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:33 pm

john HD wrote:
panhead wrote:Delivering pizza's?
nope, i'd bet it is the latest delivery of super double top secret carb float foam.
john
If it were pizza, the dog would be all over the scent.
If he was running off with my foam, I'd smell that too, because it really stinks!
(Check it out when I open my display box at D-port!)

All I smell is that rain-soaked million-mile sheepskin.

Like a bad penny, the night shift will be back... After he cracks the new password!
Heh heh.

....Cotten

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Re: Generator ID questions

#10

Post by NightShift » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:16 pm

Sorry to be away but the bosslady had chores for me heh heh.

An overhead valve idler gear looks like about 3 5/16" diameter.
IDLERS.jpg
Hope this helps,
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Re: Generator ID questions

#11

Post by Saintly » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:48 am

Ah crap, I guess I got the wrong gears.

My idler measures 3" O.D. and has 46 teeth. My generator gear has 14 teeth.
I suppose this means I have ironhead parts huh?

Looks like the fellow who sold me this set mis-represented it as FL parts.

Now, can I just pop a 51/13 gear set on, and run this generator?
And finally is there any definative way of finding out if this is 6 or 12V?

Maybe I can bring it to an auto electric shop and they'll know how to test it and tell me.

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Re: Generator ID questions

#12

Post by Frankenstein » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:00 am

I think all 6v gennys have the 2 field coils in parallel, but not sure of the later ones. The 12 volt field coils are wired in series. Also, the 12 volt armature is wound with a smaller gauge wire than the 6 volt one. Don't have those numbers on the wire gauge handy, they're out in the shop.
DD

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Re: Generator ID questions

#13

Post by steinauge » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:48 pm

If you get the right idler gear you will also need a 13 tooth generator gear.

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Re: Generator ID questions

#14

Post by awander » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:25 pm

The wiring you drew up sure looks like it would be correct for a 3-brush generator.

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Re: Generator ID questions

#15

Post by NightShift » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:54 pm

steinauge wrote:If you get the right idler gear you will also need a 13 tooth generator gear.
Dear Steinauge,
Thirteen was always my lucky number too! Two brush generators dropped a tooth in 1958. But they both connect to the same idler gear and now we go faster longer without stopping for cows on the road so either does the job real good.

Except for repops that are sloppy on the shaft,

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