Sealed battery for 56

Electrical issues
Forum rules
Please do not start new topics here, but here: New Panhead and Flathead topics
Post Reply
beets
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:03 pm
Bikes: 56 FL, 07 Goldwing ,91 BMW K75
Been thanked: 2 times

Sealed battery for 56

#1

Post by beets » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:21 pm

I have heard of a replica H-2 case that allows the use of standard wiring and terminals while using a modern sealed 6V battery tucked inside. Does anyone know of this box and battery?
My rear fender is in the shop for repair and paint, and I would like to keep it acid free.



panhead
Site Admin
Posts: 2544
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:17 pm
Bikes: 1954 FL
Location: Holland
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#2

Post by panhead » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:04 pm

Like this one in the Gallery? This was done by member James (Cut off top of 6V lead acid battery, gutted and installed a gel battery, see topic viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5366)

Image

james
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:33 pm
Bikes: 2003 FLHRCI
1952 FL
Location: Wrightsville Pennsylvania
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#3

Post by james » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:53 am

Thank you for checking out my battery. I posted that June 2009.
There are some pictures of it all together and you'll never know it was gutted.
It's holding up just fine. I can't believe how it holds a charge after sitting for weeks at a time, months at a time.
One thing I'd like to add, when I finished putting the battery together and attempted to wire it up in the bike with felt pads, it wouldn't fit.
I mean I was unable to install the bolts for the wires because the felts took up all the room on the posts.
I had to carefully cut off about 1/4 inch of the black plastic material from the lead battery posts.
After that everything bolted up nicely, works and looks great.
I can reuse the gutted case in the future if this battery fails.
Im not sure if its a gel battery or a SLA battery.

Thanks, Jim

Perry Ruiter
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:29 am
Location: Canada
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#4

Post by Perry Ruiter » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:06 am

Geoffry Erdos (Cleveland area) makes this really nice shell. A 6 volt SLA fits snugly inside. 12 volt has a little more room. If you're in Canada I have these available (with or without battery). If you're in the US PM for Geoff's contact info. As you can see they include a fuse holder.

I must stress however, if you're still running your model 52 as a three brush generator a sealed battery isn't for you. Only use a sealed battery if you've converted the generator to two brush. The SLA batteries need a well regulated charge and a three brush generator just doesn't provide that and the batteries tend to explode if overcharged ... Perry
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

ozwick86
Posts: 764
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:06 am
Bikes: '59 Pan FLHF
Location: N. California
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#5

Post by ozwick86 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:22 pm

Anyone know the cost of the H2 Battery Box? Nice piece!

beets
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:03 pm
Bikes: 56 FL, 07 Goldwing ,91 BMW K75
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#6

Post by beets » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:35 pm

Thanks to all for the responses. I never would of thought that a 3 brush could overcharge.
I guess my next step is how to run the vent tube on my -29 battery.The tube pointed straight down and I couldn't get the hose to not kink.

I tried to rotate the end 90 degrees and it broke. I JB welded it and found that it had broken loose when I removed the batt for this teardown. Any ideas on the vent situation?

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 268 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#7

Post by Cotten » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:47 pm

Geoff is now also producing the -54 "Richardson" battery,
patterned after a pristine example that I found in an alley about three blocks from home.

I hope he doesn't mind me letting his email out:
geoffreyerdos@yahoo.com

.....Cotten

ozwick86
Posts: 764
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:06 am
Bikes: '59 Pan FLHF
Location: N. California
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#8

Post by ozwick86 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:46 pm

Mr. Erdos replied to an email I sent him using the email address that Cotten supplied. He asked me to pass on his correct email address;

Quote " Here is the correct email address for your question. bergogi@gmail.com
Could you please pass on this info to the person you got my email from"

55panFL
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:39 am
Bikes: 1955 FL
Location: Wilton, iowa
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#9

Post by 55panFL » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:34 pm

Perry Ruiter wrote:Geoffry Erdos (Cleveland area) makes this really nice shell. A 6 volt SLA fits snugly inside. 12 volt has a little more room. If you're in Canada I have these available (with or without battery). If you're in the US PM for Geoff's contact info. As you can see they include a fuse holder.

I must stress however, if you're still running your model 52 as a three brush generator a sealed battery isn't for you. Only use a sealed battery if you've converted the generator to two brush. The SLA batteries need a well regulated charge and a three brush generator just doesn't provide that and the batteries tend to explode if overcharged ... Perry

Does anyone have info on these batteries?

james
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:33 pm
Bikes: 2003 FLHRCI
1952 FL
Location: Wrightsville Pennsylvania
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#10

Post by james » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:37 pm

Go to ebay and type in "6 volt harley battery"
scroll down a few and there it is the sealed 6 volt battery.
I bought one in 2007 and just had to replace it after 5 years. I also went one step further and bought a cut out relay/ voltage regulator from Gene Harper in Colorado. You will need to get rid of the third brush and change a wire or two. Gene supplies all the instructions.
He has a advertisement in the Antique Cycle Magazine.

Jim

Mr.Big
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:50 pm
Bikes: 1952 FL
Location: Texas
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#11

Post by Mr.Big » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:37 pm

My 52 Pan with Model 52 Gen has one of Geoff's 6v SLA battery setups and so far has worked perfectly. Perry could you elaborate on why the 3 brush won't work well with an SLA?

FlatHeadSix
Moderator
Posts: 2683
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:14 pm
Bikes: '31 VL, '34 VD, '45 WLA, '47 WL, '49 FL, '51 WL, '58 ST (Hummer), '71 GE (Servi)
Location: Lonoke, Arkansas
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#12

Post by FlatHeadSix » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:34 am

Big,
I'll give it a shot, Perry may elaborate. A 3-brush generator has no external regulator so it is basically "unregulated". Output (regulation) is controlled by the position of the third brush and is therefore constant, if it is spinning, it is producing electricity and trying to charge the battery. One of the design features (I guess) is that it is less efficient at higher rpm, the faster it spins the less it produces, this is what may keep the original units from overcharging a battery on a long ride at highway speeds. The bottom line (I guess again) is that they were engineered so that the output matched the load of standard lighting equipment and ignition.

There really is nothing wrong with a Model 32E if everything in the system is as it should be. Look at their track record, they used the same system on every bike they built for over twenty years. If something isn't broke why try to fix it? The problem today is trying to mix & match new with old.

Bar room trivia for what its worth....
mike

awander
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 1226
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:03 am
Bikes: '52 FL
'64 FLH
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#13

Post by awander » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:31 am

I can elaborate slightly on that.

The 3-brush generator does not use a regulator. The voltage regulation in the system is the battery. Lead-acid Batteries, depending on their state of charge, need to have a lot of current pushed into them to raise the voltage above, say 6.9V.

I have a voltmeter mounted on my '52 (with 3-brush 32E and cutout), and the voltage across the battery varies from 6-6.5V at idle to 7.5-8.5V at moderate engine speeds. It falls again as the engine speed gets really high.

This means that a SLA battery, which is less forgiving of charging voltage range, will NOT work well as the voltage it sees varies from 6V-8.5V during operation.


Now, a 2-brush generator uses a 2-unit or 3-unit regulator. Both regulator types contain the same cutout relay(unit 1) along with a second relay that serves as a voltage regulator(unit 2). The 3-unit regulators also have a third relay that serves as a current regulator.

The voltage regulating relay actually switches the field coil on and off to maintain the output voltage from the generator in a much more narrow range-probably in the 6.5-7V range. If the voltage goes up, the field coil is momentarily disconnected, until the voltage drops into the correct range, and the coil is re-connected. This is repeated at a high frequency, and the effect is to keep the charging voltage relatively constant.


If you charge your regular battery too fast(too high a voltage), it heats up and a lot of water evaporates, and you will need to replace that water. If you do the same thing to a sealed battery(which is not really sealed, but is vented) you can't easily replace the water that evaporates(or even easily check to see if any HAS been lost).

So if you want a sealed battery to last a long time, you need a fairly good voltage regulator, hence the recommendation to use the 2-brush with a 2- or 3-unit regulator.

Mr.Big
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:50 pm
Bikes: 1952 FL
Location: Texas
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#14

Post by Mr.Big » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:46 am

Ah, thanks to you both for the excellent responses.

55panFL
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:39 am
Bikes: 1955 FL
Location: Wilton, iowa
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Sealed battery for 56

#15

Post by 55panFL » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:20 pm

How can I verify if I have a 2 or 3 brush generator?
1955 FL

Post Reply

Return to “Electrical”