Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

Electrical issues
Forum rules
Please do not start new topics here, but here: New Panhead and Flathead topics
Post Reply
Hummbusa
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:34 pm

Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#1

Post by Hummbusa » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:20 pm

I would like some input from the great minds on this board :)
I am in the process of completely rewiring my 50 Pan because I want the piece of mind knowing its all been wired to
the best of my abilities (I'm following the manual to a tee) I have had some sort of electrical gremlins the whole time
I have had the bike but just ended up working through them.
I had Dale Cashman rebuild my generator a few years back but the problem is I thought I wanted the originality so I
had him do my 3 brush generator which after scouring the forum I see that may have not been the best thing for me.
The simple truth is at this point I am not going to have a 95+ point AMCA bike but I would keep all the original items
if I decide at some point to return it to factory. Bottom line is I want a rider....maybe even a daily rider :o
Now I know the question is not one with a single correct
answer but these are the things running through my mind....
#1 Get the whole conversion kit from JP Cycles that includes everything..12V Generator, battery, battery holder, coil,
solid state regulator and auto advance distributor....$600
#2 Piece together the above replacing the distributor with a ebeyond 2000 unit and battery with the large Yuasa YTZ14S
#3 Do the 3 brush to 2 brush conversion from 45 parts depot and stick with the 6V. Not sure how to do it so I would
think I would have to take it to a shop $$$. Also what else would I want to change.
Thank you



Bosheff
Posts: 1234
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:23 pm
Bikes: 65 FLH 82 FLH
Location: Michigan
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#2

Post by Bosheff » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:20 pm

For the least amount of aggrivation and the most reliable system go the 12v route. Try to get yer hands on a "genuine" 12v generator if possible. If rebuilding a stock H-D generator use high quality parts (armature, fields, brushes, bushings and bearings). It is my understanding that there are now quality rebuilders/parts available out there. Stay away from the Jap and Tiawan junk. Go with the Electric Frank regulator. I think these are called Cycle Electric these days. These are solid state units and are quility pieces. Make sure you get one that is compatable with the battery yer plannin on usin. Use a "genuine" ignition switch. They are rebuildable/repairable. Use quality components such as headlight, tailight, brakelight switch and horn. Solder all connections and use shrink tubing over the soldered joints. Use good quality crimp on ends. Solder on ends are better if you can get em. Stay away from butt connectors. These have a tendency of comin apart. This is not the cheapest way out, but quality is never cheap. Take yer time during the rewiring process, and check and double check yer work. Use a "genuine" -65 12v coil, a "geniuine" H-D timer, and a quality set of points and condensor such as Standard-Blue Streak or Echlin. Stay away from anything that is manufactured/marketed by "Accel". If done properly with quality components, you should get many years and miles for dollars and labor invested....bosheff

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 268 times

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#3

Post by Cotten » Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:42 pm

Hummbusa!

Your choice of voltage has nothing to do with a points ignition system. The same points and condensor work fine.

Beware of any kits that include an ignition assembly as it is totally un-necessary.
(Panheads never had a distributor, by the way.)

The easiest way to make your original 6V hardware serviceable would be to connect your field coils in series, eliminate the third brush, and run a regulator. As a two-brush system, your lights will be every bit as bright as a 12v.
You can even run a 6v halogen headlamp if you wish.
The relay can remain as a dummy for appearances if desired.

An "upgrade" to 12v will involve a chancey coil, a resistor upon your horn, a full change of bulbs, and your choice of battery.

The only real advantage of 12v over 6v is availability of replacement bulbs and batteries, and greatly eliminates the need for soldered connections.

....Cotten
PS: Electric Frank's seems to have been defunct for some time; CycleElectric offers similarly ugly end-mount assemblies, but they are entirely their own.
A simple box-style solid-state unit neatly tucks under the generator on a an angle bracket for a better appearance. For 12v batteries in an oil tank, CE's "low-voltage" CE-102L is your best choice.

nmaineron
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:00 am
Bikes: 1995 fxsts,1963 fl project in progress
Location: Patten,maine
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#4

Post by nmaineron » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:13 pm

I must have been lucky.My 6v system worked well once I cleaned out the thorns.Initially I had a 52 fan cooled with regulator setup up and on the maiden voyage the battery boiled and the genny kept running after I shut the bike down so I yarded the whole works put in a 32E and relay and never had a problem after that.I did an experiment that worked well for me,I bought a Japo relay and took the contacts out of it and replaced the ones in my original relay that were really shot.It worked fine for years.I could never get a 12v battery to last like a 6v would.

Hummbusa
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:34 pm

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#5

Post by Hummbusa » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:00 pm

Cotten,
"The easiest way to make your original 6V hardware serviceable would be to connect your field coils in series, eliminate the third brush, and run a regulator."
This is what I think I want to do but I am a total novice at the electrical part. I have tried to search for how to do this with no luck. Is this a kit or something you
can just do on your own. Any clue on whom would sell these items or a shop that I could send it off to? Also do you have a recommendation on the regulator
to run in this scenario?

hplhd
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 613
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:16 pm
Bikes: 1998 heritage springer
Location: indiana, usa
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#6

Post by hplhd » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:46 pm

Image
Image
would this help.

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 268 times

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#7

Post by Cotten » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:20 pm

Hummbusa!

My preference for 12v is the CE low voltage SS regulator I mentioned previously.
Their 6v offering is CE-101, and not offered in a low voltage option, apparently un-necessary.
(I was the first to request low-voltage 12v units as a special order years ago, and now are the industry standard.)

And of course, they offer the ugly endmounts in both 6v and 12v as well.

Your local aftermarket vendor can get you one quickly.

But you are not limited to CE's units, nor solid-state units. If you wish to rig up a sportster Bosch mechanical regulator, it worked for me.

If you find the generator requires more than you can handle, the first specialist in H-D generators that comes to mind is Dale Cashman 757-497-0131.

....Cotten

Hubbard
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:23 am
Bikes: 54 FLE, 49FL ,27JD,74FX all customs
Location: Virginia
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#8

Post by Hubbard » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:52 pm

I can testify for Cycle Electric products. I have an honest 75000 miles on their generator and solid state reg. Absolutely NO complaints. But the only reason I switched from a32 E to the new setup was where I live at the time the only way to get a battery was to order one for close to 100 bucks, otherwise never had a complaint.

Frankenstein
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:14 pm
Bikes: 37ULH,46UL,47EL(80"),65FL,61KH-WL-BSA hybrid,56square4,several 50's BSA 500 singles
Location: Interlaken, NY
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#9

Post by Frankenstein » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:48 am

Another solution is to install 65A 12 volt field coils in your 32E generator, and add a 12 volt regulator. This makes a very nice inexpensive conversion to 12 volts. A "12" volt armature is NOT necessary for this conversion.
DD

Hummbusa
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:34 pm

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#10

Post by Hummbusa » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:06 pm

Thanks for all the help...now I'm searching hard to see how to do some of the suggested ideas. Mainly either converting my 3 brush to a 2 brush. I am more than willing to try it on my own...but just want to find a step by step instruction and have not came across one yet.
Frankenstein wrote:Another solution is to install 65A 12 volt field coils in your 32E generator, and add a 12 volt regulator. This makes a very nice inexpensive conversion to 12 volts. A "12" volt armature is NOT necessary for this conversion.
DD
The above also interest me there again if I can do it myself. Pretty sure I still would need a 12V coil and bulbs too....see I'm catching on!!

I'm not being bullheaded (well sort of :roll: ) but I get SO MUCH more enjoyment out of fixing thing myself even though all I'm really doing is following the instructions. I just get feeling of pride riding "my" bike no some shop built bike. I also know there are certain things you are better of letting the pros do. Is working with these old generators one of those things?

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 268 times

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#11

Post by Cotten » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:39 pm

Hummbusa!

There is nothing more rewarding than a successful generator project.

The un-successful attempts make them so.

....Cotten

lownslow
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:44 pm
Bikes: 1941 FL
1970 XLH
1998 FXDWG
Location: Oregon
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#12

Post by lownslow » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:52 am

hplhd wrote:Image
Image
would this help.
hplhd, great wiring info. Page 86 of what???

Frankenstein
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:14 pm
Bikes: 37ULH,46UL,47EL(80"),65FL,61KH-WL-BSA hybrid,56square4,several 50's BSA 500 singles
Location: Interlaken, NY
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#13

Post by Frankenstein » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:06 am

It gets even easier with the 65A fields, connect one end of the new field to the "switch" terminal,the other to the relay terminal. Wiring to a regulator would be the same. Yes, 12 volt coil and bulbs are needed. This conversion will run a 100w/50w halogen bulb if that interests you.
DD

58flh
Posts: 3340
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:54 pm
Bikes: 1958flh 1969sporty,had a knuckle but sold back to original owner
Location: NEW JERSEY
Has thanked: 195 times
Been thanked: 259 times

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#14

Post by 58flh » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:54 pm

DD & Cotton have gave you great advice, I done these conversions for some of my cust. & they love it no problems!!! & thats always good!. I also done a custom conversion on my genny- it cosists of finding a early VW beetle, take the armature out & throw the rest away. It is very close in size to H.D.s (lengthwise). A little turndown on a lathe, youre there! while its still chucked-up clean-up all the copper where the brushes make contact. This is a tedious job & EXP. is tenfold here. After you clean-out between all the connections, using a fine tool made for the job or a spent hacksaw blade works great to..Blow everything clean & spray with dielectric safe fluid,then blowdry again. I know this might sound confusing but it olny takes me about 20 min. to do! (the volkswagon armature is made better than a Harleys!---I hate to say it but after running this unit in my sportster,& panhead with no problems for long,long times---except brushes & lubrication normal wear stuff. In my 58flh its been in there for 16 years now!(also when i compared the German unit vrs. the H.D. unit you can see ,more heavier thicker brush surface contact--& the windings are much better & neater done, the shaft is also thicker by .040 ) Again this is not a nessessary thing, its just something I came across & made work to my advantage. It was easy for me because i am a machinist/wrench. Whatever your choice they all will do you fine! (GOOD-LUCK) 58flh

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 268 times

Re: Convert to 12V or upgrade the 6V?

#15

Post by Cotten » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:21 pm

58FLH!

The last time I shopped for a Bosch generator,
it was more scarce and higher priced than a Harley!

The local Carquest delivered one with a double-ended armature, apparently for a mini-bus,... and it was dead on arrival.

CE's armatures are finer made than the Dixie's I've installed, but they both work.

I miss Dixie bad.

....Cotten

Post Reply

Return to “Electrical”