Generator and regulator options

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joe
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Generator and regulator options

#1

Post by joe » Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:32 am

Note : I posted this on the American Iron site with no luck, Ohio-Rider suggested I try here :D
Hi List,

I am getting close to needing to install the generator and some type of regulator on my 56 Pan and am looking for some ideas.

The problem is the RH case is from 1960 (no generator perch and 5/16 through holes to mount the genny). I have the correct generator for the RH case (model 58 I believe) but do not have the space or set up to mount a regulator behind the rear cylinder, not really where I would want to mount the regulator anyway. I want to stay with 6 volts.

Possible options:

1. Just get a Cycle Electric generator with a built in regulator (not very authentic looking though
2. Trade my generator for a model 52 and use a Cut Out (as stock). Mounting may be a problem, perhaps I can drill and tap the generator for 5/16 bolts..is there enough meat?
3.???

Thanks to anyone who may have some ideas!

Joe



joe
Posts: 121
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1956 Harley FLH
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Re: Generator and regulator options

#2

Post by joe » Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:02 am

Okay, breezing through the Knowledge Base I did learn that I can tap out a 32E to accept 5/16 bolts (in which case I am back to stock functionally) . Or I could stay with my model 58 and use a stock relay as a dummy and mounting a solid state regulator under the front motor mount may not be a bad idea.

The most convenient solution, if it exists, would be to use the model 58 and mount a relay that is actually a regulator in the stock location.

hydra74
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Re: Generator and regulator options

#3

Post by hydra74 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:20 am

Joe, there is a small 6v regulator that looks like a relay i'm gonna use it for my project pan in combination with a model 58 generator

Hydra

joe
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Re: Generator and regulator options

#4

Post by joe » Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:55 am

there is a small 6v regulator that looks like a relay i'm gonna use it for my project pan in combination with a model 58 generator

Hydra
Sahweeet! Where do I get one ? :D :D

hydra74
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Re: Generator and regulator options

#5

Post by hydra74 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:16 am

I bought mine from JWBoon in the Netherlands

http://v-tronic.com/vtronic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Robert Luland
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Re: Generator and regulator options

#6

Post by Robert Luland » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:52 am

Joe, let's face the facts; the case is shot due to the fact that the relay mount has been cut. So no harm in drilling the generating holes to for a 12 volt. I'd rig it up with an early 12 volt XLCH Bosch regulator and hide it under the tranny plate. I've been running one for twenty-five years. No problems. Bob L

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Re: Generator and regulator options

#7

Post by RUBONE » Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:04 am

Joe,
As I said in the PM on the other site:
Several options,
Cycle Electric is one,
Using a mounting bracket for an early XLCH Sportster puts the regulator on the end of the generator,
No need to change generators. You can run the -47A regulator or a print Bosch unit, both will work well. (The -47A is the same as the stock rear mount type. The brackets are available aftermarket.
Robbie

joe
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Re: Generator and regulator options

#8

Post by joe » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:58 am

Thanks for the tips guys! My cases are actually in fantastic shape with the relay boss intact. When I started this project I did not have a RH case and someone suggested I go with 58 and later because it had improved pinion bearings (if I remember correctly). I found a beautiful 1960 RH case and had Truett & Osborne match it to my 1956 LH case. The bike will be a rider and worth way more in pieces than as a whole bike, lots of really good original parts but from various years.

I think I will try the V-tronic option first because it is the cleanest and most stock looking. Again thank you all for your input, it is greatly appreciated.

Joe

joe
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Re: Generator and regulator options

#9

Post by joe » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:17 am

Good info, I am just about ready for the finishing touches on my bike (56 pan with a 58 generator) and it looks like an inner primary and the voltage regulator are the last two items. I was going to go with the V-tronic regulator but they are pretty expensive ~$180, I am now liking the sportster regulator idea and was wondering, can you use a "two-unit" (voltage reg and cut out but no current reg) regulator with a two brush generator? I think two-units were originally designed to be used with a three brush generator.

Thanks!


Joe

Update. Apparently a two brush generator was paired to a two unit reg on Model 52 K and KH units (ref Panhead Service manual)

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Re: Generator and regulator options

#10

Post by john HD » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:25 am

that is correct joe.

you can also rewire a 3 brush to work with the 2 unit regulator.

i have had one on my '55 for years. works well.

john

CaptMike
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Re: Generator and regulator options

#11

Post by CaptMike » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:50 pm

I'm considering a 12 volt generator with the Cycle Electric regulator on the end to simplify wiring (but how complicated is the wiring on a '57 anyway). I have a mount for the Bosch regulator.

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Re: Generator and regulator options

#12

Post by awander » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:04 am

hydra74 wrote:I bought mine from JWBoon in the Netherlands

http://v-tronic.com/vtronic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I like it, but it says it only does 10 Amps. that means 60W max, and I want to run a 55/60W Halogen headlamp.

Guess I'll stick with the 3-brush setup until someone makes a "relay-replacement" generator that can handle more current.

Or is the 32E really only capable of 10 Amps? I always thought it was 15 Amp max output.....

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Re: Generator and regulator options

#13

Post by awander » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:15 pm

joe wrote: ...I think two-units were originally designed to be used with a three brush generator....
Update. Apparently a two brush generator was paired to a two unit reg on Model 52 K and KH units (ref Panhead Service manual)
The stock regulator for my '64 was a square, 2-unit regulator(cutout relay and voltage regulator). This was a 6Volt system, with a 2-brush generator.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 3-unit(cutout, voltage regulation, current regulation) was not used on a Big Twin until '65 when they went to 12V.

And all(well, both) of the 1960's Sportsters I have seen ran 12V 2-brush generators with Bosch 2-unit regulators. I thought this was also stock.

What I'm saying is that I don;t think the 2-unit regulator was designed for the 3-brush generator. I think it was designed for the 2-brush.

joe
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Re: Generator and regulator options

#14

Post by joe » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:42 am

Agreed! I did find this weekend that Kick Start offers a custom bracket to mount the 74510-47 regulator to the generator and its only $10
Part number 0260. The catalog also shows you how to make your three brush into a two brush.

joe

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Re: Generator and regulator options

#15

Post by john HD » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:01 am

andy,

just a quick check of the electrical section in palmer's shows 4 6 volt 2 brush set ups.

they are in order 58 and 61, 32E2R, 48, 51 and 52K models. if you look at page 363 you will see a '38 police model with a 3 unit regulator.

my understanding is the reason for the 3 brush units was to protect the armature when the radio was transmitting.

john

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