63 panhead blowing fuses

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Garyson1311
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63 panhead blowing fuses

#1

Post by Garyson1311 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:19 pm

Hey guys,

Okay so I got the panhead started!!! (Small victory!), she idles pretty rough so ive been messing with the carb, etc and its getting better (thats a different issue though, lol).. I turned the bike off to grab a drink and came back to it and now EVERY time I turn on the ignition the lights that usually turn on for a second (gen and oil) turn on and BAM a fuse pops. Ive been through about 10 fuses and i've reconnected the battery and still have the same outcome? I wonder what could have happened or changed???....



Bosheff
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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#2

Post by Bosheff » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:58 pm

Replace the fuse with a breaker installed on the negative side of the battery. Pull yer dash cover off and see if hot wire/wires off the ignition switch are shorting out on the cover. If worse comes to worse, remove fuse/breaker and wire direct. Fire it up and watch for smoke. Not at all a safe way to do it, but the short will become more than apparent....bosheff

Cotten
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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#3

Post by Cotten » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:45 pm

Gary!

Do you have a mechanical regulator?
If so, inspect inside for stuck points, burnt coil, etc.

With any external regulator, always re-polarize after any disconnection of the battery.

....Cotten

Garyson1311
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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#4

Post by Garyson1311 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:12 pm

Without trying to sound too ignorant? How do I tell what kind of regulator it is or inspect the coil? I just wonder what could have changed.. it was working ok then I let it sit for a minute and then it just started popping them... Also, is there a trick to repolarizing since I did disconnect the battery? Thanks!

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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#5

Post by PanJud » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:44 pm

go from positive battery post to "A" terminal on generator (that applies to my 2 brush...don't know if 3 brush is same or not) Ya will see a little spark...what size fuse are we talking about here?

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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#6

Post by Cotten » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:50 pm

Gary!

Your machine was originally supplied with a Delco-Remy regulator, which was a black tin-topped box mounted vertically on a bracket from the rear motor mounts, above the oilpump, and in front of the rear exhaust pipe.

Mechanical regulators can be inspected by removing the cover. A generator that has "lost" its polarity will make one of the sets of electromagnetically-operated points switches vibrate and burn, often solid. Hopefully this has not occurred, but it is the first thing that occurred to me!

Solid-state units are usually cast with fins, and the electronics potted inside.

As PanJud mentioned,
Polarizing a two-brush generator is accomplished by "flashing" with a jumper wire: momentarily connecting the battery to the armature lead. Although the books speak of doing this at the regulator, because of the variations, I prefer to always jump straight from the battery positive terminal to the generator's "A" terminal.
For me, "momentarily' means touching it to make a spark three times. Others contend it must be constant contact for several seconds, which makes me apprehensive.
I feel flashing is good medicine to repell evil electrons even when a generator wire or ground wire has loosened or become disconnected.

The only exception seems to be CE's integral regulator, for which I have no experience.

What does yours look like?

.....Cotten
PS: And a note on fuses and breakers,

The regulator is normally left in direct connection with the battery, and fusing is upon the lead to the switch alone, from the positive terminal.
If the fuse or breaker is upon the ground, the system should be polarized every time it blows, no matter what the cause.

There are other reasons why the positive lead is always fused instead of the negative, but I am too electrawnically-challenged to remember why.

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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#7

Post by socalrider » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:02 am

Our bikes operate on dc current. In a dc circuit , current flows from positive to negative. The current flows fom the positive side of the battery through the load,( lights,ignition horn etc ) to the negative side of the battery. Short circuit occur on the positive side of the circuit. In other words the current does not flow through the load,it goes directly from positve to negative just as if you were to make a direct connection between the positive and negative posts on a battery.because the negative side of the battery is connected directly to the frame, if a positive wire makes contact with any part of the bike , it will cause a short.So if you have your breaker located on the negative side of the circuit , you basically have no short circuit protection and you will fry the wiring. What you do have is OVERLOAD protection which is also needed but can also be accomplished by putting the breaker on the positive side of the circuit.
Arnulfo

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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#8

Post by PanJud » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:08 am

I have my breaker on the negative side (just because there's a convenient place to attach it right by the battery) But if the breaker is right at the negative pole of the battery, and it opens up, is current flow not stopped?

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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#9

Post by Cotten » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:48 am

Arnulfo!

Now I'm really confused.
I was taught electrons were negatively charged, and were attracted to the positive!

....Cotten

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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#10

Post by socalrider » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:27 am

Cotton, current does flow from negative to positive within the battery. Panjud if you have your breaker cqonnected to the negative side of your battery it will open under overload conditions only. In other words more current is flowing through it than what it is rated for. In a overload condition , current is flowing through the load completing the whole circuit only more current than what the breaker is rated for so the breaker opens. a short circuit current does not flow through the load and complete the circuit , it takes a SHORT CUT directly to ground.it does not go through the load,and back to the negative side of the battery via the negative wire in the circuit , therefore the breaker will never see the excess currents and open when a SHORT occurs. When a short occurs the breaker trips INSTANTLY ( if the breaker is on the positive side of the circuit) becauase the currents are very high generating alot of heat very fast .When a overload occurs , the breaker does not trip instantly because the currents are not so high as to generate as much heat as fast as a short does but enough to trip the breaker over a certain amont of time. Thats why when you have a overload if you go to a higher rated breaker the circuit will hold if the amount of the overcurrent is not higher than the breaker, but then you are taking a chance of frying your wiring if the wire is not rated for the amount of current flowing through it although it wont fry instantly as it would in a unprotected short circuit.
Arnulfo

Garyson1311
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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#11

Post by Garyson1311 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:30 pm

Wow guys great information. Yes cotton mine is the little rectangular shaped box on the right side of the engine. I was able to repolarize it and I also located a loose wire that was touching the frame so I fixed that up and now that electrical issue seems to be fixed. Thankyou so much for the help! Since I have your guy's attention let me ask one more question... After leaving the air cleaner off and letting the bike run for 5-6 minutes as I was playing with the idle, it seemed to be getting pretty warm (I could smell that it was a little warm but not burnt and I saw a very small amount of white smoke coming from the engine, it wasnt a bunch but I still noticed it and turned the bike off as I don't want to damage anything... That being said, did I let it idle too long while it was sitting there and it got warm? (It was about 100 degrees outside) (It started off with a really high idle and I adjusted it down but I also know it is air cooled so I didnt wanna keep it like that forever) Could it not having the air filter or cover on at the time and just an open intake hinder its cooling? Could the bike not be getting enough oil flow? (it's leaking quite a bit after riding it around the block one time which leads me to believe that oil is getting pumped) Another thing is that there was a small puddle of gas that I wiped off sitting near the bottom of the pushrods as I made a dummy move and forgot to tighten the bolt from the petcock to the bottom of the carb bowl with adequate torque so possibly some remnants from that? Another thing that on my mind is the fact that there is some assembly lube in all the usual spots so maybe that could be causing a little bit of smoke? Lastly, this motor is being started with a fresh top end (pistons, rings, cylinder head restoration, valves, seats, guides, springs, etc) The white smoke wasnt coming out of the pipes at all from what I could see, maybe a small amount after I stopped the engine. Also, the bike has maybe 2 minutes of riding time on it and probably 15 minutes of running time since the top end so maybe something is being broken in? Sorry for the long post but i just wanted to get as much info out there to try and figure this thing out. I appreciate all your help and dont think I could have done it without you guys.. If your even in the area, I owe you guys a cold one. I'm planning on firing her up tonight and trying to finish adjusting the idle, hopefully taking her for a spin, and seeing if its all good.

Oh and I attached a picture of the bike so you guys could see what i've been working on. We have ALL the original stuff from 1963 in our rafters (Fenders, windshield, bags, seat, running boards etc and all in Hi-fi red) as her father didn't really ride with that stuff on there and kept the basic black tanks, fenders, etc on there but I think it looks cool :)
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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#12

Post by steve_wood » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:08 pm

Gary:

The white smoke could just be small amounts of residual oil or some other fluid burning off the exterior of the engine. Try to localize if you can. If it's oil leaking onto a hot surface you will see burnt oil marks....

I would also suggest that you leave the air cleaner ON when tuning the carb. Leaving it off reduces the "resistance" of the air intake pathway, thereby making your mixture more lean. Tune the carb with it set up the way you're gonna run it i.e. with the air cleaner in place.

steve

Garyson1311
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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#13

Post by Garyson1311 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:16 pm

That's a great point that I didnt even think of. I will put it back on tonight and fire her up so I can tune it. Thanks so much for that!

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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#14

Post by PanJud » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:46 am

socalrider wrote:Cotton, current does flow from negative to positive within the battery. Panjud if you have your breaker cqonnected to the negative side of your battery it will open under overload conditions only. In other words more current is flowing through it than what it is rated for. In a overload condition , current is flowing through the load completing the whole circuit only more current than what the breaker is rated for so the breaker opens. a short circuit current does not flow through the load and complete the circuit , it takes a SHORT CUT directly to ground.it does not go through the load,and back to the negative side of the battery via the negative wire in the circuit , therefore the breaker will never see the excess currents and open when a SHORT occurs. When a short occurs the breaker trips INSTANTLY ( if the breaker is on the positive side of the circuit) becauase the currents are very high generating alot of heat very fast .When a overload occurs , the breaker does not trip instantly because the currents are not so high as to generate as much heat as fast as a short does but enough to trip the breaker over a certain amont of time. Thats why when you have a overload if you go to a higher rated breaker the circuit will hold if the amount of the overcurrent is not higher than the breaker, but then you are taking a chance of frying your wiring if the wire is not rated for the amount of current flowing through it although it wont fry instantly as it would in a unprotected short circuit.
Arnulfo
This made me remember electronic school 30 years ago...there was (then, anyway) 'electron' theory (negative to positive) and 'Hole' theory (positive to negative, or rather, a space representing the LACK of an electron moving in that direction). I hate theories

Anyhow, I've had this discussion before--if the ONLY path to ground from the negative post of the battery IS the breaker, HOW is a short from positive battery to ground maintained? (At any rate, I went for years without any fuse or breaker at all, so my current arrangement is an improvement on that)

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Re: 63 panhead blowing fuses

#15

Post by socalrider » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:35 am

PANJUD YOU ARE RIGHT !! dont know why i could not see that but all the same ,my bad. my sincerest apologies to you and all i may have confused.a breaker on the negative will provide short circuit and overcurrent protection
arnulfo

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