65FL Starter Switch

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Underdoggie
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65FL Starter Switch

#1

Post by Underdoggie » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:11 pm

While tracking down a short in my starter circuit I took the starter switch on the handlebar apart to look at it and the switch does not look like the one in my 58 to 68 parts book or my service manual. It appears it has got pretty hot and the wire behind it has no insulation left. I took the horn switch apart to see what it looked like and it looks almost the same. A machined piece of fiber board with two brass contacts, here they are.
starterswitchinside.jpg
hornswitchinside.jpg
hornandstarterbuttons.jpg
I have a 58 to 68 parts book I got from Antique Cycle supply in 1989. It looks the same as this picture out of my service manual.
starterbuttonpartsbreakdown.jpg
4thru 8 is called out as a 70059-66 repair kit. On mine, numbers 4, 7 and 8 look different and number 6 is not there at all. Number 4 on the starter switch has a wire soldered in it but looks different and on the back side the wire is cutoff flush and you can see two distinct contact marks.
The book calls out switch assemblies too and this is even more confusing.
70060-66 “ Button switch, with wire terminals“ used on early 65-
71631-65A “ Starter Button switch (buckhorn bars) “ used on 65-*
71800-26A “ Button Switch Assy. “ used on 41 to 64
71800-65A “ Button Switch (speedster bars) “ used on 65
71801-65A “ Horn button switch (buckhorn bars) “ used on 65-*
I am hoping someone here will shed some light on these differences. I know a real 65 parts book might show something different. It would not be the first time I have seen that. Or is this one of those weird 65 all kinds of different parts things or even not factory.
I need to repair it and after visual inspection and continuity checks I am pretty sure the starter button is my problem this time. When it happened I was stopped and popped it into neutral, the whole system just went dead. I think because the hot wire to the starter button was contacting the handlebar causing a direct short but it did not hurt any wiring as thankfully I have a main breaker on the system now. I got a short in the starter circuit once before in 1989 before I had a main breaker installed on the positive post of the battery. In that situation the neutral switch shorted and it burned the wires, terminal board behind the coil and some wires under the Speedo housing. When I fixed it that time I never did look at the switch, I just ran continuity on it and everything checked out.
I should add I did incorporate a relay in the system as well in 1989 when I made the other repairs. I wired it like the 68-69 wiring diagram in my service manual

Thanks, Underdoggie
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Underdoggie
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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#2

Post by Underdoggie » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:16 pm

Update.
I made a trip to Cottens place for another reason and I looked at his 65 parts book and there they are. The switches in the book look just like the ones on the bike. If they changed to the 70059-66 repair kit so quickly, the design with two contact points must not have been a very good design.
Cotten could not make a copy of the page for me, if anyone else has one I sure would appreciate a copy. It is probably not possible to find a new switch like this so I will probably just make one or perhaps someone else has a better suggestion.
Thanks,
Underdoggie

UPSROD
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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#3

Post by UPSROD » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:08 pm

John, one of those -66 kits JUST sold on eBay. You should be able to find a used
switch from someone and re do yours. Do you have a starter relay? I hid a modern relay under my headlight
housing.

RUBONE
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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#4

Post by RUBONE » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:20 pm

Underdoggie,
The switches marked -26A and -65A have the new plastic button instead of the bakelite used for many years. I believe the 70060-66 switch has the new style internals as a replacement for the early type HORN switch.
The early '65 switch was especially prone to overheating when held down for any period of time. The cap making a connection across the two terminals was not very effective. The later version was much better for contact.
And a relay is great but the idea is to keep it as close to the starter as possible to cut down on resistance and voltage drop.
Robbie
Image
Image

Cotten
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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#5

Post by Cotten » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:02 am

Just for the record,

I coulda made copies,
but somebody insisted that their ubersmartphone with dilithium flux capacitor and self-contained subspace/time-continuum transponder had it covered.

The next question is:
Why do Speedster and Buckhorn bars use different switches, and what is the difference?
Screw spacing?

....Cotten

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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#6

Post by RUBONE » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:06 am

Why do Speedster and Buckhorn bars use different switches, and what is the difference?
Screw spacing?
The length of the wires! They are factory attached.
Robbie

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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#7

Post by FlatHeadSix » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:22 am

RUBONE wrote:The length of the wires! They are factory attached.
Robbie
Dang, I wuz just going to say that. That new moderator guy beat me to it, he's making the rest of us look bad! :cry:

Underdoggie
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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#8

Post by Underdoggie » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:47 pm

Cotten wrote:Just for the record,

I coulda made copies,
but somebody insisted that their ubersmartphone with dilithium flux capacitor and self-contained subspace/time-continuum transponder had it covered.

....Cotten
Well, the picture I took turned out a little dark because your shop is lit like a cave or possibly a dive bar. Which of course, could have been your objective because you are used to being in places like that and I would know because I would always see you there. By the way the pictures in this thread were taken with my phone and they are pretty good.
Underdoggie

Underdoggie
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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#9

Post by Underdoggie » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:02 pm

RUBONE wrote:Underdoggie,
The early '65 switch was especially prone to overheating when held down for any period of time. The cap making a connection across the two terminals was not very effective. The later version was much better for contact.
Robbie,
Thank you for that page from the parts book. Your comment about the potential for overheating was very apparent on my starter switch. I would just about bet that melted contact was from the original problem back in 89 before I put the relay in the system and the wire from the starter button went directly to the solinoid. It sounds like the 70059-66 repair kit is probably the best way to go for the repair. I will start looking to round one up.
I do have another question about that kit. When I look at the pictue in the parts breakdown I see a #6 plastic washer and do not understand how that keeps #5 spring from contacting #7 the lower contact and just completing the circuit. Perhaps I will when I actually see the kit.
Thanks again
Underdoggie

Underdoggie
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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#10

Post by Underdoggie » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:06 pm

UPSROD wrote:John, one of those -66 kits JUST sold on eBay. You should be able to find a used
switch from someone and re do yours. Do you have a starter relay? I hid a modern relay under my headlight
housing.
Hi Rod,
I do have a relay. The one I have is off of an early shovelhead I picked up at a swap meet. I mounted it under the battery box. I did not use the right angle bracket, instead mounted it inverted. Works good tho.
DSC02565-1.jpg
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Cotten
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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#11

Post by Cotten » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:35 pm

"....because your shop is lit like a cave or possibly a dive bar. ..."

Oh yeah??

I'll bet high-class lounges are lit just as bad as my shop.
Or at least I was told they were dark too.

The relay can easily be double-nutted to a kickercover stud beneath the battery tray.

...Cotten

UPSROD
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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#12

Post by UPSROD » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:38 pm

Here you go John.....http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-HARLEY-DAVI ... 3371eaa98d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Underdoggie
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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#13

Post by Underdoggie » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:52 pm

Oh yeah??

I'll bet high-class lounges are lit just as bad as my shop.
Or at least I was told they were dark too.

...Cotten
Perhaps you could make a wine bar for you more affluent customers and put this sign in the front window.
DSC_0853.jpg
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Underdoggie
Posts: 82
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1974 Honda XR75
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1975 Honda CB 750
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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#14

Post by Underdoggie » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:53 pm

UPSROD wrote:Here you go John.....http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-HARLEY-DAVI ... 3371eaa98d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks Rod,
I have this bookmarked and will be bidding later.
Underdoggie

Cotten
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Re: 65FL Starter Switch

#15

Post by Cotten » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:57 pm

Alas, Mr. U,..

Too many of my locals whine too much already to supply them with more.
And sadly, there has been only one affluent in all winter... t'wuz thee!

Tell me again how much did that Senior First cost you,.. Nevermind, back to topic:
Did you have to remove the relay to get it?

...Cotten

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