Transmission inspection

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mogman
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Transmission inspection

#1

Post by mogman » Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:45 pm

While I have my Duo-Glide apart I am going to go through the tranny, mostly just to inspect it as it has only one problem that I know of, and I hope someone can give me an idea where to look. It shifts ok but it feels "spongy" or "rubbery", no snap while riding. finding neutral is easy enough, when on the lift shifting it with my hand it has allot less of this spongy feeling.



fourthgear
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#2

Post by fourthgear » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:25 pm

Best way to inspect the tranny if you have it out is pull the top off to look inside for things like bent or loose shifting forks or the spongyness may come from the worn shift cam , there is a lot that has to be with in spec's for the trans to shift properly. I just got done rebuilding my 65 tranny and still have the ratcheting assemb. (pawl assemb.) apart for inspection and cleaning. I also have good photos of the shifting clutches and new Andrews side by side that I will put in the Tech. photos for you to look at .
The tech manual gives you some good info for what and how to inspect the tranny with out taking it fully apart . Worn shifting clutches and or there mating in the gears are some good places to look, also with the fatchet top off you can see how it feels shifting with out it moving the shifting clutches to mate with the gearing. It should have a good snap like feel when going thru the gears ( (pawl carrier springs could be gumed up and make it slugish , stuff like that )and don't forget to check shift fork clearance.

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Last edited by fourthgear on Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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#3

Post by john HD » Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:33 am

chain tension and clutch adjustment can have a huge effect on how a trans feels when you go through the gears.

john

fourthgear
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#4

Post by fourthgear » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:04 pm

John's right on about the chain and clutch adj., too tight of primary chain will make it difficult to get into neutral and hard shifting. Spongy or rubbery and feels less on stand ,could be rear chain also ( you did say a duo-glide), if you got her apart , a tranny inspection gives you piece of mind , it is not for all to do , they can scare a lot of people with good reason . Take it to some one you trust to check it out if you feel it is not with in your scope of tech. expertice , its a good idea if you don't know its history, just for a look see.

badger
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four speeds

#5

Post by badger » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:20 pm

Howdy,
I am brand new to forum and appreciate any information to learn more about wrenching on my pan. I ride a '63 FLH out of So Cal. I have always maintained my own bikes and I am getting into some more serious wrenching. My four speed trans needs to be rebuilt. I got the third gear howl, and its leaking oil from the fourth gear brass bushing. I am in over my head and will have a professional rebuild it. Could anyone recommend some good honest shops to call? There a several out here, but I would like to get a 2nd opinon. Also, is it better to rebuild or buy a new one?

Thanks,
Badger :shock:

VT

#6

Post by VT » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:11 am

You should call Stett's http://stettsironhorseranch.com/ and UPS it to him, or call the Shop in Ventura http://www.cycleshop.com/.
Either one... tell them you heard about their shop here at the club house. There's always a hot pot on the stove. 8)

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#7

Post by fourthgear » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:29 pm

badger
I don't want to steer you wrong ,but I did my first tranny ( four speed ) just from reading the tech manual. It all depends on how much wrenching exp. you have and what you think your abilities are.There are special tools if you get into things like honing a new bushing for the main shaft in the main drive gear.I would replace the whole drive gear with the late mod. one that has a mech. seal for the main shaft , some thing that contributes to a leaky main shaft if not there , thats why HD upgraded it.I also use a magnetic base dial ind. for main drive gear end play ( I will post a photo in tech. photo s when done with this post )There are a few tricks too , I don't hammer in the main drive gear seals , I press them in to keep them uniform( uneven or not set back seals can also leak )I also found that the new double lip seals don't use the cork gasket behind them , not enough room for set back and you can deform the seal( I use RTV sealent around the out side of the seal where it contacts the case for a positive seal ,( clean all surfaces with acetone where you want the RTV to seal good ) . There are newer type sprocket nuts that have a seal and o- ring on them to help control sepage from that main shaft area.
The HD manual and Clymers man. are good sources of rebuild info if you care to tackle such a job , but if you don't think you can handle it see above post for a shop near you to do it for ya, it would be money well spent in the long run if you do not think your expertice is up to it.
As you can see theres a lot to it and I have only touched on some of process.

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#8

Post by badger » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:18 pm

Thanks for info guys. I am starting to think I might try rebuilding it myself. I can pull things apart with the best of them. Bikes being a hobby, price is a big factor. Having it rebuilt will set me back $600 to $1000. A new one will run $1k to $1,800. I have a good Clymer manual. If it was mostly swapping parts, I think I could handle it. I am not setup to do any machine work though.

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#9

Post by fourthgear » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:21 pm

Badger
Here are some photos of the trans from my 58 framed Pan.
Checking main drive gear end play( 1965 tranny )

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All the components-

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mainshaft assem.-

Image

This is a Rev tec complete set for the four speed , I think it cost was $ 660.00, nice close ratio set up and it works great-

Image

I must of forgot the counter shaft assem. photo.
The 65 I just got done all I replaced was the forks , shifting clutchs (all Andrews )and put a thicker thrust washer on the main drive gear to put in specs and of course new seals and loc tab washers every thing else was up to par. You will need to replace the third gear loc ring on the main shaft , don't reuse the old one .Good luck bro , send photos of stuff you have questions with , we have a wealth of info and experance here .

badger
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#10

Post by badger » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:59 pm

Thanks for all the advice Fourthgear. I have thought it over and I am going to give rebuilding the Trans myself a try. What's the worse that can happend? My Pop has been wrenching on bikes for over 30 years, so I have good reference material. hehe.

I pulled the Trans out on Saturday without too much problem. The clutch hub was kind of tough to get off though. I have put everything on my workbench in order of removal and just in case it gets knocked over, I am taking pictures of everything.

Here are a couple of questions;

1. What are some of the better rebuild kit makers out there?

2. Besides packaging, is there a way distinguish manufactuers of gears? There are a couple of really good motorcycle swapmeets out here and I thought I could save some money.

Thanks again and I will post pictures soon of my progress so far.

8)

fourthgear
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#11

Post by fourthgear » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:36 pm

badger
Good sources of parts are RevTec (custom chrome ), Andrews and Stock componants , some perfer the latter , but I'm running that RevTec close ratio set in 2.60 and its been just great. I don't like swap meet parts to do any rebuild , if I think it needs replacing , I buy new . Of course cases ,ratchet tops and mounting plates can be picked up there .
If its worn out , why replace it with some thing thats already worn. Put to specs and she will give you long service. Some times you can get new at a swap , just check it out real good . yes ,Mo photos

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#12

Post by Cotten » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:12 am

Things must have changed over the last decade, because I have rejected more CCI and Andrews products than any other brands, even Taiwan generic.

The last styrofoam-boxed batch of CCI tranny guts brought to me were horrendous. And the last Andrews mainshaft I inspected was not machined concentric from one end to the other, causing the tranny to pop out of gear under heavy load.

Good luck.

...Cotten

badger
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#13

Post by badger » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:37 pm

I should have made myself clear. I wanted to go the swapmeet to get new parts at a less than retail price. However, the different opinions about who makes a better part and identifying marks is what I was looking for. The shops will tell you that everything coming out of Taiwan is crap. Some say the Japanese parts are looking better. Do american parts exist? Are they going to cost an arm and a leg?

VPH-D

#14

Post by VPH-D » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:02 pm

Cotten,
I am sad to hear your comment about Andrews' quality. It was bullet proof stuff back in the 70s and 80s. Would you recommend a mfg. that has acceptable quality trans parts now-a-days?
VPH-D

fourthgear
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#15

Post by fourthgear » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:44 am

badger
Andrews gears and parts do have Andrews name on them . I recently had a mainshaft third gear that nobody could idenify the markings, yes you can still get NOS gears , try NOS Parts in Wellington ,Ohio. The quality of the parts I'm seeing from RevTec and Andrews seem fine to me ,but its your call there too.

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