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Rear wheel locking up

Wheels, hubs and tires
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Digger

Rear wheel locking up

#1

Post by Digger » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:00 am

Guys I need your HELP. I have been trying to install my rear wheel, everything is new parts from aftermarket supplier, CCI MidWest etc etc . When I tighten the rear axle nut, everything jams up. Can someone tell me the inner spacer dimensions from a 67 FL Drum Brake Rear wheel, the one I have stick out of the hub approx. 1/4 inch. Is the inner wheel sleeve suppose to stick out of the wheel this much, it appears it might be jamming bearings when the swingarm squeezes together, Ive tried everything, If I back off the axle nut the wheel hub turns fine, as soon as I torque the axle nut, the wheel jams solid. Any assistance I'm dying here. Thanks Jim.



Digger

Re: Rear wheel locking up

#2

Post by Digger » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:07 am

??? Cotten are you out there???
What is the purpose of the inner sleeve on a 67 rear wheel set-up. As I see it the wheel bearing on the wheel side sets against the wheel, and the wheel bearings in the drum, are against the drum center pilot. I guess the sleeve just stops the bearings from moving sideways inside the drum bore? If the inner wheel sleeve extended to far out of the wheel 1/4" would this jam up the bearings, what if the sleeve was not installed, why do the sealed bearings need side load preload? Thanks for any advice. Jim

Cotten
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Re: Rear wheel locking up

#3

Post by Cotten » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:05 pm

Whoa, Digger, that's modern stuff I rarely encounter!

(And my literature is always at the shop...)

In general, axle bolts pull hub assemblies up tight against spacers, both internal an external. If your internal spacer is too short (or missing), you will be pre-loading excessive side thrust that can bind the wheel.

So can the brake shoes, or wheelcylinder rubbers.

....Cotten

caschnd1
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Re: Rear wheel locking up

#4

Post by caschnd1 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:21 pm

Digger,

I had a similar experience once. In my case it was caused by a warped drum brake backing plate. As soon as I tightened down the axle nut, the backing plate would cock slightly out of square and the shoes would jam against the drum. Couldn't move the wheel until I loosened the axle nut.

-Craig

Digger

Re: Rear wheel locking up

#5

Post by Digger » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:50 pm

Thanks Guys, both responses give me some good advice as to what to look for in the garage tonight. I wish I new how far out of the wheel hub the spacer is actually supposed to stick out, therby ensuring the wheel bearings are not jamming up. I wouldn't think the wheel bearings would jam, They are sealed bearings, I'm assuming straight rollers not tapered, the sleeve presses up against the race, not sure how this could over preload the actual bearing, but anything is possible. The backing plate, drum, and shoes are all new Japan junk, I may have to locate some better qaulity stuff that fits proper or get the grinder out. Anyone who can provide inner wheel spacer measurements, would gain a new drinking pal. Thanks again for the responses. Jim.

Kurt
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Re: Rear wheel locking up

#6

Post by Kurt » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:18 pm

Digger, try to install the entire assembly without the brake shoes and see if it still locks up. I've found that on several of my bikes when replacing the shoes, I've had to bevel the brake lining on the edge so it doesn't rub the brake drum on the inside.

Digger

Re: Rear wheel locking up

#7

Post by Digger » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:35 am

Well guys I think we are on to something, all this Japan Junk that I bought ain't worth the packages it was mailed in. Kurt great minds must think alike, cause on my way home from work I thought of removing the shoes, they are definetly hitting the inside of the drum, these are the wider shoes, but man they are junk, linings are different widths, dont cover the entire shoe, have to grind metal shoe, before I even think of chamfering linings. The Custom Chrome spacer provided with the wheels appears to be .300 to short (Cotten you hit the nail on the head). I need to fix up the linings, and have a longer spacer made to prevent the drum from grinding into the backing plate (Caschnd1). Any idea of where a guy could locate decent parts to replace this crap that I have, a original 67 backing plate and new linings, and sleeve would cure all this mess. Can't wait to tackle the front axle. Thanks again. Jim.

caschnd1
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Re: Rear wheel locking up

#8

Post by caschnd1 » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:30 am

Jim,

If you are having to bevel one edge of the linings, that's an indication that the backing plate is warped. Once you get a straight backing plate, you should not need to bevel the linings (provided the linings are straight).

-Craig

Skip
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Re: Rear wheel locking up

#9

Post by Skip » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:59 pm

I have a backing plate you can have...do not know the exact year...bought it to as a spare for a 48...it is in ok shape...straight, but chrome is another thing...no cam or anything...as far as linings...I go to a tractor supply store and buy the linings and rivet them on myself...brake shop used to sell them to me...another safety police issue...and I ALWAYS bevel the edges...just makes for better fit and braking.....Skip

caschnd1
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Re: Rear wheel locking up

#10

Post by caschnd1 » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:27 pm

I always bevel the leading and trailing edges. But if you have to bevel the sides to get it to not drag then it's a problem with the backing plate.

-Craig

Skip
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Re: Rear wheel locking up

#11

Post by Skip » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:57 pm

Craig...you are correct...I should have said "ends"...did not realize he was speaking of the sides....Skip

Kurt
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Re: Rear wheel locking up

#12

Post by Kurt » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:28 pm

No, I disagree......sorry.....at least in my situations......the backing plates are fine. It's the material on the shoes that are too thick at the brake drum side in the corner. It may be that the shoes are too wide, but never the less, once the material is removed, the brake works perfect everytime......at least for me it has......
The first time I encountered this years ago, I painted the edge of the brake shoes and tightened the assembly until it started to drag. Then rotated the wheel and then removed the wheel and drum. The paint was worn off the shoes the entire way around and you could see where it was hitting on the drum inside. 5 minutes with an angle grinder and the problem was solved. Been doing it this way everytime if this happens.
As long a the steel part of the brake shoe isn't hitting, then everything is Okay. If the metal part of the shoe is hitting, you may want to measure the width of the shoe against an original. If that measurement is Okay, then the next part I would check is the inner sleeve. If it's too short, it will cause the backing plate to sit further inside the drum causing everything to bind.

Kurt

Skip
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Re: Rear wheel locking up

#13

Post by Skip » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:24 pm

I had an elderly gentleman re-shoe mine about 12 years ago...this is why I started doing it...he replaced my linings with some 5/16ths too thick...an 1/8th inch too wide...took me 2 hours on a belt sander to get those to fit...I have found that old farmall tractor brake linings are the best when I can find them...I would like to have another brake rivet tool as mine has seen better days...if anyone knows of one please let me know....Skip

rodklop
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Re: Rear wheel locking up

#14

Post by rodklop » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:58 am

Skip: The last one I bought, I got from a Model A Ford parts
supplier. I have used that one for a long time...Rod

duoglide58
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Re: Rear wheel locking up

#15

Post by duoglide58 » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:57 am

When I got my bike it had a similar problem and kept cracking shoes. It was due to a mix of incompatible parts. I had parts from 58 and 63 style backing plates, axle sleeves etc. If I recall the spacers behind the backing plates are also different. I think I used Palmer's book to differentiate the different components and then ordered the correct ones for a 58. You might have a similar problem with your components.
Doug

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