Clutch -- Too Much Friction?

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Fixman
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Clutch -- Too Much Friction?

#1

Post by Fixman » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:49 pm

The clutch operation on my 57 has me puzzled. It is grabby/jerky when just engaging the clutch to start out in first. The rest of the operation is normal.

I have a new clutch hub, drum, friction disks (Barnett wet/dry), Sifton Retainer Ring, and the solid Spring Collar Assembly. The steels looked good so I am using the old ones.

All adjustments are set to spec., and everything feels good and works well except it is grabby when just starting off in first. It feels like I can't slip the clutch like I should especially if I have the engine rpm a little too high when I start out. If I slow the engine speed down the engagement is more smooth. Primary chain is adjusted properly.

This jerky engagement started after the clutch hub nut came loose. We cleaned the old friction plates and re-installed everything. It appeared no damage was done and it went back together fine. Mouse trap and clutch adjustments were set according to the manual, and it all worked well except for the initial clutch engagement. I have since replaced everything as mentioned above, but still have the jerky engagement.

What am I missing here?



fourthgear
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#2

Post by fourthgear » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:46 pm

Did you check the steels for warp-age ?

Ohio-Rider
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#3

Post by Ohio-Rider » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:57 pm

I have often experienced grabby clutch plates after cleaning or installing new plates. After a few hundred miles they smooth right out.

Fixman
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#4

Post by Fixman » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:21 pm

fourthgear, the steels looked good. I didn't specifically check them for warpage, but they worked well before the hub-nut incident, and I can't see that they would warp becasue of that. I will however check it out.

Ohio-Rider, I think you might be right, and am really hoping that it will straighten out in a few hundred miles.

I might also loosen the tension on the clutch springs and see if that has any effect. I set the distance at 1" even though that is a little over the recommended setting for a new clutch.

Kent

VT

#5

Post by VT » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:38 pm

What's the clutch hub liner look like? Is it cork and metal OEM laminate style? Are the rivets tight? Is the liner loose?
I use a Nylaton liner from V-Twin. Always a smooth release.

Fixman
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#6

Post by Fixman » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:42 pm

Both the old and the new liners were OEM type of material. Rivets were tight. The old one worked perfectly until we had the nut problem. I cleaned the friction discs really well when we put it back together, and, of course, the new hub ( from VTwin) had a new lining with new friction discs. Probably just need to let it wear in and stop being so anal.


Kent

VT

#7

Post by VT » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:05 pm

I don't like "wear-in" with Pan. It's all good or somethings wrong.
How about any of the three studs being bent? If the discs get hung up, it's a problem. I didn't read about your hub nut. What's the short story on it? Any jam action that would have bent the studs?
Also, if you don;t have a stock style clutch assembly, then I have no advise beyond 41-64. You now know all I know.

Fixman
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#8

Post by Fixman » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:19 pm

VT- everything is new - Hub, drum, friction disks, Ramjet, etc. It is all stock. Nothing is bent since it is all new.

Hub nut backed off, and it was put back on with a new key. It all looked normal. Before the re-install of the nut, the clutch engaged perfectly. I did totally clean the friction disks when re-installing the nut, and the problem started. I then began replacing stuff until I had totally replace everything, but the problem persists.

Kent

VT

#9

Post by VT » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:25 pm

Ramjet, etc.
What's ramjet do. What the etc. What parts do you have in the assembly that I would not see in the OEM Spare Parts Book?

Fixman
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#10

Post by Fixman » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:33 pm

The Ramjet is another name for a Sifton Retainer. It is a plastic spacer that is designed to reduce grabby clutches. The Etc, is a solid Spring Collar Assembly which eliminates the warped pressure plate problem. These two items were installed when the clutch operated perfectly so that eliminates them from the cause of the problem. All else is stock. The reason I changed the hub and the drum is because I guessed that something was bent when the nut backed off. I was wrong because they didn't fix the problem.

Kent

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#11

Post by fourthgear » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:20 pm

fixman
One inch may not be enough( or too much ) for the distance between that type of pressure plate and spring collar . I had to play with mine a little to get it right . The way I adj. it was to put it on the loose side of adj. and with the derby cover off , I would take it for a ride ( or just start out in the drive way )and adj. it till it stopped slipping and add a half turn -one full turn on the nuts after I was satisfied it would work with two up riding ( I have a five stud clutch hub ). Do you have the stock type of spring collar? I can pull my cover off and see what measurement mine is . Another thing is that alum. pressure plate is tapered away from the place to take a measurement from the under side of the spring collar to the pressure plate.( no real flat surface to get good reading from )

Is this the pressure plate set up you have in there?

http://www.hydra-glide.com/coppermine/d ... ?pos=-1472

Fixman
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#12

Post by Fixman » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:45 pm

fourthgear, that is the setup I have with a three stud clutch. I think that I will loosen up the nuts and do as you say. I think it should be adjusted to the point just before it slips. I measured the 1" by using two rulers. One across the back of the spring collar and the second perpendicular to it on the outer edge of the tapered pressure plate. Unfortunately you have to take the primary cover off. I know the measurment now is one inch so I can back off the spring nuts a half a turn at a time and give it a try like you suggest. It seems logical that even at 1" it might be too much pressure. Less pressure also makes the mousetrap work easier so that is a plus. Thanks.

Kent

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#13

Post by Cotten » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:14 am

Fixman!

I hope you didn't throw away the spring disc?
(The one with a friction pad on one side, and steel with 'ears' cut into it on the other.)

....Cotten
PS: I'm not a fan of "performance" clutches. I don't even care for the Factory's 5-plate assembly!

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#14

Post by PanPal » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:45 am

The spring disk would also be my next solution. You are operating the clutch engagement entirely by hand feel without it. I believe it cushions the engagement process. I have also heard it called a half plate. after you install it, you will have a spare clutch plate in your parts stash.

Fixman
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#15

Post by Fixman » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:00 pm

Well, I never throw anything away, but that doesn't mean I didn't do something stupid like leave it out. Are you talking about what the parts manual calls the "cushion Plate?"

Kent

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