Belt Primary

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51Hog
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Belt Primary

#1

Post by 51Hog » Fri May 30, 2008 6:14 pm

I have never had anything that run drive belts.
Anyone used this setup?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harley-K ... enameZWDVW
Does it fit inside our tin primaries?
How long do properly adjusted belts last?
Are they quieter than chains.
Do they produce less vibrations?
Pros and Cons?
Thanks,
Dale[/url]



Robert Luland
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#2

Post by Robert Luland » Fri May 30, 2008 9:53 pm

51, Here are the pros and cons of the belt drive. Belts need to have a pre-tension on them. You can’t leave them sloping around like a chain. The reason for this is when you hammer that throttle the load is put on one cog instead of them all. Thos call the tow truck and call for a new inner and outer primary case. The last one that blew up on me ripped the screws right though the outer primary because all the teeth start to pile up on one another. The standard belt drive is a rubber industrial drive belt. It does not like oil of any type and will degrade quickly if expose to such. I don’t care what you use on that engine or tranny for seals they will leak on that belt and you will learn how to push 600lbs of hog. Now back to the preload thing. This will ruin your main drive gear bushing on your bike in about an hour of riding. 65 an up have the bearing support for the main shaft that allows you two get away with this. The early belt drives were the worse. You had to grind the ratchet top on the tranny to get the tranny close enough to the center post to get the belt on. The average industrial rubber drive belt does not expand when it’s hot it contracts. Which will just make the matter worse. Now lets check out the find belts of the early 1980s. I blew up two of these to! With better seals Harley was able to get the oil thing under control. They came up with their own Kevlar belt that would resist oil etc. In fact they even sold a synthetic paste that you put on the belt to lubricate the cogs. This did work because you were able to preload the belt tension (Remember the main shaft 65-support thing). I ran them on a 64 and down set up and just like the rubber ones they broke. In closing this post let me make one thing clear. Harleys running a chain as I type for good reason. BELTS SUCK! I was left a total of five times stranded. One day I said phuck this and put a mag and a chain on my 60 and have never been towed again. Bob

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#3

Post by rrhawg » Fri May 30, 2008 9:58 pm

I've been running belt drives on pans for over 30 years. I believe that they are great. less vibration, no adjustments, turn off chain oiler, smoother shifting etc.
I personally do not like the 11mm belt kits though. I've seen more of them break and strip teeth than any others. I would stay with the 8mm 1 1/2" belt drive kits that fit into your closed primary. I've had good luck with primo or BDL. I've gotten years out of a belt without them breaking when set up correctly.
I don't believe the preload statement, as I've run them with slack enough to almost turn them 90 degrees and had them soaked in oil. The belt on my 59 was on there for over 5 years, and that was when it was my main transportation, I changed it then because I thought it shoud be but not because it broke.
I don't think you would disappointed.
Rich

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#4

Post by Panacea » Fri May 30, 2008 10:11 pm

I'm with Bob, I just got done replacing the belt on my pan for the second time. Like he says, no way to keep all the oil off the belt, and the required tension will ruin the drive gear bearing. I'm considering going back to the chain. Mike

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#5

Post by Robert Luland » Fri May 30, 2008 10:12 pm

The last rubber belt I blew was a 14mm. If I want smother shifting I'll take the FLHT out the garage. No more tow trucks in my life. Well lets make the playing field level here. If your running a belt and you love it then give the rest of the info. Bearing support or not, what mm, what whith? I mean get real. If your running a 3" drive on a 65 an up. It's not going to breake all to soon. Bob

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#6

Post by fourthgear » Fri May 30, 2008 10:31 pm

I've got a BDL 11MM with over 10K and no problems . I have about 1/2 - 3/4 inch deflection , maybe more ( you can flop it around in there pretty good when its cold )and it still looks like new in there, running tins.If it gets oil on the belt, I just clean it off with out removing it and its fine .I have the gasket (s ) set up on the motor side to let the oil drip out side the inner primary , instead of inside . (tapered shaft and yes oil gets on my back white wall )

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#7

Post by 51Hog » Fri May 30, 2008 10:41 pm

I wondered about pre-load---
Think about the chains--
1/2" slack= 0 Pre-load.
Put it into gear, and things change drastically. The primary chain is constantly pulling on the main-shaft, pulling it forward. Similar to pre-load?
The rear chain while being driven will put a load to the rear of the drive gear. The primary load on the Main Drive Gear would seem to cancel the load put on the main drive gear by the rear chain.
Would the main shaft not have a forward load on it all the time while running in gear? And while decelerating, would the load not be to the rear?
Why would a reasonable preload on a belt be different than the loads created by chains in motion? Just trying to understand.


when talking about an 11mm belt, what part of the belt is 11mm? Width of the teeth.
Thanks

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#8

Post by rrhawg » Fri May 30, 2008 10:43 pm

Robert Luland wrote: If your running a belt and you love it then give the rest of the info. Bearing support or not, what mm, what whith? I mean get real. If your running a 3" drive on a 65 an up. It's not going to breake all to soon. Bob
As I stated in my earlier post I was running one on my 59 and it was a 8mm 1 1/2" belt with tin primaries, no bearing support.
They make a bulls eye belt that is a touch longer and I run this one. I do carry a extra belt with me and have broken belts in the past on various panheads that I have owned. I have never had to call a tow truck because of a broken belt, it's a easy change even on the side of the road.

yes the width of the teeth is difference.
Rich

erlyirn
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Belt primary

#9

Post by erlyirn » Fri May 30, 2008 11:26 pm

I purchased a Phase III belt drive in 1976 and the only belt problem I ever had was my fault. I had it to tight and tore all the teeth off. After that I set up the tension like I would a chain,turned off the oiler and ran a hose outside the inner primary and have never had to replace another belt due to failure. I think you would like the belt.

john HD
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#10

Post by john HD » Sat May 31, 2008 12:11 am

i'm with bob on this one.

i ditched the belt and regained the compensating sprocket.

been shifting happy ever since.

john

51Hog
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#11

Post by 51Hog » Sat May 31, 2008 12:55 am

Just found this old thread on belts--

I will call http://www.Foghollow.com tomorrow.

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#12

Post by Panacea » Sat May 31, 2008 1:28 am

Primo calls for 1/2" of deflection, which seems real tight to me, I'm also dealing with a new "chirp" that appeared with the new belt. When I get a chance I'll start her up, wait a few seconds for the chirp to begin, then spray some water on the pulleys to see if it quits, might just need to be "run in" I've never had to call anybody to bring a trailer and pick me up cause my primary chain broke! Mike

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RE: Belt Drive

#13

Post by ozwick86 » Sat May 31, 2008 4:58 am

I run a 8mm belt along with a BDL Competitor Clutch on my 59FLH with no problems. Oil has not affected my belt at all.

Anyone going to the Redwood Run in 2 weeks here in N. CA? I am heading up on Friday the 13th along with my brother.

1950Bobber

Hell yes Belt Drives are Tit..Especially BDL!!!!

#14

Post by 1950Bobber » Sat May 31, 2008 6:35 am

DALE, Dale my Man!!!!
My $.02...COMPLETELY IGNOR Mr. Luland, disses a fine improvement based on his ONE experience as if that is some kind of valid research project!!!!!!!!!!! (all due respect Mr. Robert Luland!)......

I run them, I have run them since the 1970's when the first aftermarket beltdrive "Hogmaster" came out with a SQUARE TOOTH design..yeah, that was meant for disaster!) For your info dale, square belt teeth do not nicely mesh with the sprockets!!!!

The BEST on the market for us common guys is... BDL 8mm pitch Belt Drive...that's right, the BDL. They run closer to the tranny on the main shaft so you don't have that "far from the tranny sprocket centrifigal force" trying so desparately to oval out your tranny seals!!!

The next reason for 8mm pitch belts is the closer the ROUNDED belt teeth are from each other, the better to mesh and ride the pullies (Sp?). Many have had no problems however with 11mm, stay clear of 14mm!

Oil on it? Fu*King A! So what? Like modern day materials catch sling off a little oil? I just had to replce a rachet detent spring (well, I replaced them both whether I needed to or not!) and here's the drill: washer to keep the tranny springs stacked, pull out clutch plates, slide off clutch shell WITH THE BELT (easy, I mean THAT easy!!!). So replacing a belt is a 5 minute job unless you need to move the tranny top adjust belt tension, not always necessary! THIS IS ALL OF COURSE IF YOU ARE RUNNING AN OPEN PRIMARY, add 5 more minutes if not to remove the outer primary cover!!!!!

Wow, so differcult hey Mr. Robert Luland!!!

The scoop Dale...MANY, I'll repeat MANY of us run belts....BIG decrease in primary noise/vibration/maintenance.....it's a NO BRAINER in my book!!!

Oh yeah, by the way...run Gates belts...Best going! I ALWAYS carry a spare...takes up no room in my bag but a roadside repair hasn't EVER been necessary yet...I replace them at the first sign of degrade...think 8000 to 12,000 miles on a belt...(replacement GATES belts are $65)

Sorry for any and all offenses committed to the crew who may NOT agree...but 42 years riding, 30+ with belts...argue that one!

Jim in Seattle "1950 Bobber"

51Hog
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#15

Post by 51Hog » Sat May 31, 2008 6:53 am

Is this the setup that you are talking about Jim?

http://lemongrovecycle.customchromecata ... ?Sku=42527

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