1952 pan sprocket shaft seal

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69camfrk
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1952 pan sprocket shaft seal

#1

Post by 69camfrk » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:52 am

I'm looking for info on replacement of the left side engine case (sprocket) seal. I have it ordered and wondered if any of you have any tips or tricks that I might need to know. I'm running an open primary and it's seeping pretty good. By the way, first post here on this site. I just scored my Panhead this weekend. I've been riding Harley's for 23 years and still have my first one which is a '79 Sportster. My daily ride is an '03 Low Rider. I'll post up some pics and such when I get the time.



mbskeam
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Re: '52 pan sprocket shaft seal

#2

Post by mbskeam » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:51 am

colony makes a replacement seal that has the steel outer ring and a inner rubber lip type seal. you can replace these with out too much trouble, just a bit of patience and time.....

mbskeam

Cotten
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Re: '52 pan sprocket shaft seal

#3

Post by Cotten » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:40 pm

69camfrk!

Beware that when you install a seal upon the sprocket shaft, the escape for 'sumped' oil is blocked.

If your pump ball check is a sumper (and the mess you describe suggests that), you better ride it very often, or your cases can completely fill.

The symptoms can be leaky cylinder base gaskets, smoking upon hard starting, plug fouling, puking from the breather, and of course: a gooshing noise when you kick it!

....Cotten

69camfrk
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Re: '52 pan sprocket shaft seal

#4

Post by 69camfrk » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:18 am

Cotten wrote:69camfrk!

Beware that when you install a seal upon the sprocket shaft, the escape for 'sumped' oil is blocked.

If your pump ball check is a sumper (and the mess you describe suggests that), you better ride it very often, or your cases can completely fill.

The symptoms can be leaky cylinder base gaskets, smoking upon hard starting, plug fouling, puking from the breather, and of course: a gooshing noise when you kick it!

....Cotten
In other words maybe I shouldn't worry about it!!?? The bike has been sitting for a while and I have kicked it over and yup the gooshing noise is there. Do you think it would be better off left alone?? Thanks for the input!

VintageTwin
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Re: '52 pan sprocket shaft seal

#5

Post by VintageTwin » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:04 am

Vol. 2 explains all of that. Makes belt primaries easy to understand. The hard part is to try and let you know the information exists in print, without saying that I had something to do with printing it. :lol:
Last edited by Anonymous on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cotten
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Re: '52 pan sprocket shaft seal

#6

Post by Cotten » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:33 pm

69camfrk!

Since a belt drive really does require a seal upon the sprocket shaft, it means that you must address the oil pump sumping situation (unless the machine is ridden very often, or the tank drained while the machine is parked for extended periods.)

Some past discussions on sumping can be found in the Knowledge Base: viewtopic.php?f=61&t=1444

Sometimes it only takes a new spring and ball to dramatically slow the problem.

Good luck,

....Cotten

hogboy52
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Re: '52 pan sprocket shaft seal

#7

Post by hogboy52 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:21 pm

. I also have a '52 with the stock oil pump that was belt driven some years back. The original oil control was a spiral grooved steel sleeve and at first I simply cleaned up the area and epoxied the regular HD seal onto the outside and did the same with the tranny output shaft, which worked quite well for a considerable time.
Later I replaced it with the converter seal, and removing the retainer ring and using a strong parts picker magnet with some light hammer tapping it eventually came out.
On the oil pump I set the check ball by tapping it in with a drift pin and stretching the spring a bit and while it sits all winter with oil in it I haven't seen any particular amount of oil in the sump and it never ran out the original seal even sitting over at a steep angle. In any case, before a Spring start up I would remove the spark plugs and push rods and crank the motor till oil started draining out the heads.

69camfrk
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Re: '52 pan sprocket shaft seal

#8

Post by 69camfrk » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:53 pm

hogboy52 wrote:. I also have a '52 with the stock oil pump that was belt driven some years back. The original oil control was a spiral grooved steel sleeve and at first I simply cleaned up the area and epoxied the regular HD seal onto the outside and did the same with the tranny output shaft, which worked quite well for a considerable time.
Later I replaced it with the converter seal, and removing the retainer ring and using a strong parts picker magnet with some light hammer tapping it eventually came out.
On the oil pump I set the check ball by tapping it in with a drift pin and stretching the spring a bit and while it sits all winter with oil in it I haven't seen any particular amount of oil in the sump and it never ran out the original seal even sitting over at a steep angle. In any case, before a Spring start up I would remove the spark plugs and push rods and crank the motor till oil started draining out the heads.
I really have no idea how long the bike has been sitting, but it's obvious the oil has collected in the bottom of the cases. I'm guessing some regular riding of this bike may take care of part of the seepage as I really don't know what a normal oil level in the cases should be. The bike also has a S&S oil pump if that makes any difference. It will be a couple more weeks before I'm ready to crank it up. That will really tell me a few things. Here are a couple of pics of the bike.
000_0047.jpg
000_0046.jpg
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hogboy52
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Re: '52 pan sprocket shaft seal

#9

Post by hogboy52 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:15 am

That's a realy clean scoot, I like the outlines, but I can see it is vastly modernised compared to my own. Seeing this I don't think it is at all likely it does not allready have the normal oil seal on the output shaft.
The usual oil level in the crankcase is near zero. If you want to drain the crankcase there is a small drain plug on the low left side of the case.
And since you have an "S&S" pump instead of the old cast iron, all that sumping can be blamed on something else but the "old pump".

Cotten
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Re: '52 pan sprocket shaft seal

#10

Post by Cotten » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:25 pm

hogboy52 wrote: And since you have an "S&S" pump instead of the old cast iron, all that sumping can be blamed on something else but the "old pump".
What else can cause sumping but the pump?

Even a modern pump can sump, especially if the ballcheck has been hammered with a drift at some point in time.

Pumps that have been hammered, lapped, or savaged with cutters must often be re-ground before even a burnisher will work properly.

....Cotten

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Re: '52 pan sprocket shaft seal

#11

Post by Ohio-Rider » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Nothing unusual about having oil getting by the check ball when the machine sets for extended periods of time. More often than not, once the machine is put back into regular service the sumping problem will solve its self.

Push the bike over into the front yard, remove the plugs and leisurely kick it over about twenty or so times. Refill the oil tank to almost full and start that puppy up.

69camfrk
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Re: '52 pan sprocket shaft seal

#12

Post by 69camfrk » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:17 pm

Ohio-Rider wrote:Nothing unusual about having oil getting by the check ball when the machine sets for extended periods of time. More often than not, once the machine is put back into regular service the sumping problem will solve its self.

Push the bike over into the front yard, remove the plugs and leisurely kick it over about twenty or so times. Refill the oil tank to almost full and start that puppy up.
I'm glad to know about the plugs now. That'll be the plan. I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed and hope everything is solid. I got my sprocket shaft seal today if things don't return to normal. I've got to finish the wiring and put the tanks on. While I'm here, is there anything in particular I should know about the distributor??

Norseman68
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Re: 1952 pan sprocket shaft seal

#13

Post by Norseman68 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:31 pm

What part number did you get for your sprocket shaft seal I have to replace the one in my 48 EL with aftermarket STD cases and I'm wondering if it's the same one

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