1936-1964 Transmission

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VintageTwin
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1936-1964 Transmission

#1

Post by VintageTwin » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:31 pm

(VT 17-0026) Comes with everything you see except the release arm.
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Last edited by Anonymous on Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.



VintageTwin
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#2

Post by VintageTwin » Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:34 pm

Build 'em, ride 'em. 8)
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VintageTwin
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#3

Post by VintageTwin » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:30 am

1. The transmission mainshaft seal drips when the machine is parked on the jiffy stand. Not good, but fixable.

2. The gears are hard to shift. At about 3 o'clock during the starter crank's sweep, sometimes the arm will stop against an immovable mass of metal inside the tranmission while it's kicked-through (in gear). Feels like the the starter clutch is hanging up sometimes too, when I can't hold back the mainshaft with my hand and the starter crank won't rachet and free release. :shock: Careful with that mainshaft keyway Eugene :!: Razor sharp :shock: It'll cut you up... bad. Ditto for that mainshaft nut.

Synopsis: This particular transmission arrived with the (4) gear box bottom studs hand-tightened. The threads were coated with white-PST (pipe sealant w/ teflon). Oil leaked past the studs in shipping. I tightened the studs (not overly), using two nuts locked on the stud end. Three of the studs moderatedly-tightened, almost to the non-thread of the stud. Just a little thread was visable. The fourth threaded into the case, leaving one thread exposed. The studs need their base supported. Having the studs turned-in almost flush with the non-thread provides it.
I wiped the stud's base clean of PST. Transmission leaked after two days from from the left-front stud. The drain plug threads do not leak.
Last edited by Anonymous on Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:02 am, edited 8 times in total.

VintageTwin
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#4

Post by VintageTwin » Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:47 pm

V-Twin called. They want the trans. back to make it work right. Problem is, I'll never find out exactly what was wrong with it.
I pay shipping to NY, they pay shipping back. I'm keeping on with the projects. FYI:
The return shipping tag listed the problems i experienced:
1. The neutral switch post was bent/broken during shipment.
2. Mainshaft seal leaks oil, when leaned on the jiffy stand.
3. Difficult to shift between gears (when rotating mainshaft).
4. Starter lever sometimes stops soildly in mid-kick (when in gear, sitting in the frame).
5. Occasionally, the starter lever will not disenage from starter/clutch & starter gear mesh. (Mainshaft rotation will reverse, and follow the starter lever when it returns to stop.)
6. Bottom studs were shipped hand-tightened with white PST sealer. I use two nuts, locked, on the end of the stud end to carefully tighten the stud using light pressure. Only the front-left, stud of the four, tightened with at least one thread still showing before the non-thread began. The other three would only leave a trace of exposed thread visable. I think the case bore holes are to large, or flat-crown threaded and not matching the thread shape of the stud.
If those studs leak the transmission's ruined, in my opinion. What's the fix? Helicoil or fill the holes and re-tap :?:
I removed any oil I added, packed the trans in their box, with their white newsprint, stuffed and crammed supportively, and a cardboard shield over the rachet lid, and black plumbing insulation tubing over the kick arm and the same over the end of the mainshaft. Stuffed more cardboard around the edges than was shipped. Taped the box, around, in six places, put the RA # on the outside and shipped it to NY. $42.95
If they can make a dripless "transmission" that's reliable this whole rigid replication project is do-able. Buy your motor parts and have your motor built, if you want. V-Twin can make the market happen if they can produce a truly reliable '36-64 gear box. 8)
-----------------------
I copied this from RussW, on the orig. site : :idea:
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"Another option, they make those mount studs in a couple of oversizes should the stud be too loose a fit to be sealed with tape. Stock is 3/8-16x3/8-24, you can get 7/16-14x3/8-24, and 1/2-13x3/8-24. Should save you from a tear-down and reweld, at least for a while. I saw them in the J&P catalogue, but should be available from others".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I talked to Stett about the studs, their thread and fit. He said:
"The case has rolled threads in the stud bores. The case-end of the stud is something like a 13 pitch thread. On the plate end the stud is 24 pitch. The sealing takes place with the interference thread contact between case and stud threads.
Clean the stud bore with brake spray. Coat the threads of the case stud with Loctite? 640 retaining compound (#64040). [available from Henkel or Motion Industries, via Grainger?] and turn the studs in only until you feel the stud begin to bind in the case. This is usually when there is only one thread left exposed above the case, or the last thread is just barely flush to the exterior surface of the case. Then let the 640 compound dry overnight".
I told him that Harley having open bores directly into the interior of the case was whack. And why didn't they cast the case so the studs would be fitting into a blind hole? He said, "There isn't room for the extra casting material to be in the case".
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9/16/05 - Another M/C parts retailer, (40) yrs. in the Harley trade, told me the starter hangs up because the V-Twin mechanic may have used the stronger Sportster starter clutch spring, and that the Sporter and OHV springs look almost identical. My tranny is still being worked on by V-Twin's mechanic. My outlook is this: If you have a mechanical problem with a component...don't touch it...bite the bullet...package it better than it was shipped to you.....get an RA number and send it back. They're trying at V-Twin. To me this is all about a growing industry. It's been growing for 36 years and still growing. I'm backing V-Twin all the way.
Last edited by Anonymous on Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

VintageTwin
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Transmission Support Frame Bracket

#5

Post by VintageTwin » Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:42 pm

Another nasty problem has arisen with the replica rigid frames. The bracket (column) that supports the transmission on my frame is approx. 0.050'-0.070" too high, (but since the gap was measured with the trans. at a tilt, it's not an accurate measurement). The trans. won't seat fully on the base plate. It's held away because the case makes early contact with the frame bracket, and keeps the transmission bottom runners from completey seating into the inset of the base plate.
There should be a 0.001 to 0.025" gap between the bracket and the trans., so the replica support bracket needs decking by grinding and hand draw-fliing and needs to be relatively flat and level. Fun.
The OEM frames I have, have trans. support brackets with 0.012" - 0.023" gaps between the support boss on the bottom of the trans. and the top deck of the support bracket. There should be a gap.
On the OEM knuckle frame, there's a 0.023" gap between the top of the bracket's support plate and the bottom of the trans., when the trans is seated on the base plate. This 0.023" gap gets shimmed. Not done, the case can crack from stress when the 9/16 support bracket bolt is tightened.

Stett said, measure the thickness of the support bracket deck, front and back, and record the measurements. Then grind the bracket's deck as flat as you can with an 80 grit disc grinder. Go slow. Dy-Kem or magic marker the deck with each complete pass, might help with uniformity. Take measurements of the deck thickness with every pass. When you get down to where the transmission will almost seat into the base plate, start draw-filing (ang maybe dykem-ing) the bracket deck. Medium-cut file. Push to cut. Rear section of the deck, to the front section of the deck.
Pix:
1. An OEM transmission sitting in an OEM knuckle frame. There is a 0.023" gap that needs a shim. The same gap exist with the V-Twin trans. in the same OEM knuckle frame.
Synopsis: There is no difference in height of the exterior casting boss for the support bolt on either the OEM or Replica transmissions. OK. That's not a problem.
2. This is the V-Twin transmission sitting in the Replica frame. Zero gap. Bracket is 0.050" - 0.070' too high?
3. Don't know, because I had to measure the gap when the trans sits on a tilt. The gap is between the bottom of the trans and the top of the base plate.
Careful with that axe Eugene :!: Make sure you don't remove more metal than you have shim stock for.
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Last edited by Anonymous on Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

VintageTwin
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#6

Post by VintageTwin » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:10 pm

Here's the same OEM trans. sitting in an OEM -58, Hydra-Glide frame. The gap on this assembly is 0.012", (which measure the same at the front of the bracket and the rear). An amazing piece of industrial art. The gaps vary then, and all gaps must be shimmed.
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Returned Transmission

#7

Post by VintageTwin » Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:35 pm

It's back. I happen to be picking up my STD motor and rebuilt/re-designed transmission from Stett today, so I get to take the V-Twin transmission with me and let Stett put his hands on it. If the V-Twin trans doesn't fly through the spin-test, we're going to tear it down (forensically) instead of sending the trans. back again. If you want a REAL investment have Stett build your motor or trans. The buck stops here. http://www.stettsironhorseranch.com/
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We're going into the transmission. I have to know if it's right. Didn't leak oil from the studs in an overnight leak test. Results will be posted when the inspection is finished. Nice looking transmission externally. Price is right, if it works. 8)
____________________ ___________________ ________________
I had to exchange the parkerized release arm three times to get one right. The first one had no slot on the end of the arm to drop the clutch rod through. The second one had a counter sink on the front of the arm instead of on the back. The returns lady, Aleshia, told me to keep the 2nd one on a shelf and she sent me #3, which turned out to be perfect except, you can see that the arm wants to drag on the top of the cover when the arm would be in full clutch release. We're going to heat the release arm with a "rosebud" torch.....just after the connection to the finger stud. If you look at how the arm has to lift on the rod end, you can see just where it needs to be heated and bent up slightly, because a little lift near the finger stud, will translate to a larger lift at the rod end. Nice parkerizing. Wonder what rosebud will do to it :?: :twisted:
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VintageTwin
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Location: Repop Hell

#8

Post by VintageTwin » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:44 pm

V-Twin gave me another RA (return authorizaton) for this once returned trans, for store credit. Our decision was to either return the trans and use the credit to buy an empty case and a gob of parts and build our own to "Stett Spec's", or keep it and try to repair what was wrong. Stett's opinion was that building a 4-speed trans was harder to do than a motor, mostly because you start building a trans and find out you need something, so you put the trans away until the parts arrive and then start back up and find you need another part, then you wait some more, and then start building again, and it ends up driving you crazy. Or, you take the V-Twin trans you have and look into what went wrong. We opted for the latter. Problem with trans building is that if you get one thing wrong in the assembly, then that one problem will affect every other procedure you perform, so when you get through, the trans is out of specs. He'll get to the trans in December.

VintageTwin
Panhead Register Member
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:18 pm
Bikes: '46 Knuck. '57 Panhead, '59 Panhead
Location: Repop Hell

#9

Post by VintageTwin » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:13 am

Here's the reason the studs leaked on my V-Twin transmission. He showed me today. The stud (left) is OE 3/8-24 (pitch) x 1/2-13 (roll). Interference fit. Flat-facing on the threads and a shallower thread depth. The repop stud (right) is (pitch) on both ends, the reason it leaks and can be hand-turned into the case. It's better to use this Snap-On installation tool rather than two nuts locked on the 3/8 end of the stud and avoid possible thread warp. It's nice to be able to finger-spin the transmission stud nuts up to the plate when your maintenance-adjusting the transmission's position.
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VintageTwin
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Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:18 pm
Bikes: '46 Knuck. '57 Panhead, '59 Panhead
Location: Repop Hell

MDG

#10

Post by VintageTwin » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:41 am

Three of the five people that made this MDG spin on a mainshaft like a roller skate wheel. We didn't invent the procedure, just added another step or two and were the first to published it. Available through http://stettsironhorseranch.com/
Part # 4SPMDG/1.248
mdg1fe.jpg
Jose Guzman - Machinist. The Red-Head® I.D. Grinder
beauloy22iz.jpg
Allan Beauloye & Joe Bravo (seated) - Machinists - Carlson & Beauloye (establ. 1924)
buloye16gr.jpg
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