Problems with attachments solved: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17433

Kicker problem

Post Reply
57pan
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:11 pm
Location: Michigan, USA
Contact:

Kicker problem

#1

Post by 57pan » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:12 am

OK, so here's the scenario:

I just completed a total rebuild of the transmission with a RevTech gear set. Saturday I took it out for its shakedown run. I stopped at the gas station to fill it up then rode about 20 miles. The transmission is working great; shifts smooth, it's easier to find neutral, everything is good... or, so I thought. After I got home I was going to start it again and the kicker pedal does not engage - the pedal will go thru its full range of motion smoothly and the only resistance I feel is from the return spring. Also, I noticed that the rubber on the pedal has a serious case of road rash so, obviously, the pedal was all the way in the down position at some point while I was riding it.
I should also mention that during the rebuild I had a new bushing put in the starter gear and I know that the guy who did the work likes to set things up to close tolerance. But, I have read stories about the starter gear seizing on the shaft and the result is usually that everything comes to an abrupt stop. I never felt a thing - like I said everything seemed good.
I guess I'm just looking for some ideas on what to expect when I remove the kicker cover on the tranny. Unfortunately, I don't know when I'm going to get a chance to open it up; I've got so many yard projects that I have been putting off while trying to get the bike back together. Believe me, yard work is not MY highest priority but it has to get done... so I've been told.



VintageTwin
Panhead Register Member
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:18 pm
Bikes: '46 Knuck. '57 Panhead, '59 Panhead
Location: Repop Hell

Re: Kicker problem

#2

Post by VintageTwin » Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:32 pm

Stett told me he had a customer once that lost the starter crank pin. The two items that were available OEM, as individual pieces, (starter crank gear and starter crank pin), are now sold repop as one unit. The pin sheared or fell out of its pressed fit. The customer was driving the machine on the freeway at 65 mph when the pin let loose. The kick arm and pedal started pin-wheeling. If the crank arm had caught his leg, it might have killed him.

57pan
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:11 pm
Location: Michigan, USA
Contact:

Re: Kicker problem

#3

Post by 57pan » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:02 pm

Thanks Plumber, but the kicker still stops at both ends of its normal rotation limits.

PanPal
Posts: 1161
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:57 pm
Bikes: 50 EL custom
58 FL
76 FLH All Original
Location: Maryland

Re: Kicker problem

#4

Post by PanPal » Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:42 pm

It sounds like the same problem I had. I would think the bushing on the starter ratchet gear swelled and is keeping the spring from pushing the gear into the engaged position. The new bushing likes a loose fit. It almost looks like too much clearance, but it works.

57pan
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:11 pm
Location: Michigan, USA
Contact:

Re: Kicker problem

#5

Post by 57pan » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:12 am

Finally got a chance to take the kicker cover off the tranny. Like Panpal said - the bushing seized on the shaft and the spring was not sliding the gear out to engage the teeth on the starter clutch. What saved me from having to trailer it home is that the starter gear was spinning on the bushing.
So, any suggestions on how to get the bushing off the shaft?
I was kind of thinking that I would mask everything off, just leaving the bushing exposed, then use a Dremel with a small burr to cut the bushing off.

PanPal,

Unfortunately, I don't think it is going to be that easy. I used a puller to get the starter gear off but it left the bushing on the shaft. It took a lot of effort to pull the gear off and I'm sure that if the bushing had been only slightly seized on the shaft that it would have moved some, or come off with the gear, but the bushing is still all the way on the shaft tight up against the bearing retainer nut.
There is just no way to get a puller on the bushing.

Image

PanPal
Posts: 1161
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:57 pm
Bikes: 50 EL custom
58 FL
76 FLH All Original
Location: Maryland

Re: Kicker problem

#6

Post by PanPal » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:43 pm

It seems yours is much tighter than mine ended up. It sounds like you may end up cutting a groove in the bushing. A little heat on the bushing first and prying is all I can think of at the moment.

Post by panpal

The other thing about the bushing is it was being squeezed tighter on the shaft when the gear was on it. When you pulled the gear off the bushing, you relieved some of the squeeze. That bushing has a pretty thin wall and can expand a bit if you could get a bite on it with the puller.

Red55FL
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:35 am
Bikes: 1955 FL on a 54 frame
2012 Heritage Softail Classic
Location: Inola, Oklahoma

Re: Kicker problem

#7

Post by Red55FL » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:09 pm

57pan
The easiest way to get a seized bushing off of a shaft is to lay the shaft flat on an anvil (or other hard steel surface, with the bushing against the anvil. Take a ball peen hammer and beat the side of the bushing that is opposite of the side that is against the anvil repeatedly up and down the length of the bushing. Keep turning the shaft and repeat the beating up & down the bushing. You do not have to hit it real hard, just hard enough to make the bushing gradually grow in diameter. Eventually (it won't take long) the bushing will slip off of the shaft by hand. With every hit the bushing gets thinner, which also expands it.
Again, you do not have to hit it hard, just good and firm. Be careful not to hit the shaft or anything else, only the bushing.
Hope this makes since & helps.
Easy to do, hard to tell someone how to do in writing.

Red

57pan
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:11 pm
Location: Michigan, USA
Contact:

Re: Kicker problem

#8

Post by 57pan » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:52 am

Red,

Your explanation makes perfect sense to me - I just don't know if I can do that with the shaft in the transmission and the transmission in the bike. :-/
I do appreciate all the ideas you guys are coming up with. I will let you know how I make out. I'm not sure when I'm going to get at it though... been working some long hours on a software upgrade at work.

ozwick86
Posts: 756
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:06 am
Bikes: '59 Pan FLHF
Location: N. California

Re: Kicker problem

#9

Post by ozwick86 » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:57 pm

I have not worked on a transmission but could 57pan loosen the shaft nut to force the bushing off of the shaft?
Just throwing an idea at the problem.

ozwick

Red55FL
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:35 am
Bikes: 1955 FL on a 54 frame
2012 Heritage Softail Classic
Location: Inola, Oklahoma

Re: Kicker problem

#10

Post by Red55FL » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:34 am

Dave
In that case, use a heavy hammer held tightly against the bushing in the place of an anvil & use the same procedure. Since the bushing is thin, it won't take long to get it to expand. Just take care not to beat the shaft one way or the other in relation to the transmission.

Red

57pan
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:11 pm
Location: Michigan, USA
Contact:

Re: Kicker problem

#11

Post by 57pan » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:04 pm

Well, I got the bushing off. I liked Red's idea of hammering the bushing to make it expand, but there is just no room to work in that recessed area. The more I thought about my original idea of using a dremel to grind it off the more concerned I got about all the filings that would potentially get into the tranny (even if I masked it off). So, I resorted to using a chisel... I sharpened it to a razor edge and positioned it so that the flat side of the chisel was against the shaft (so as not to gouge the shaft). I still masked it off so that only the bushing was exposed - just to eliminate any stray shavings from getting in the trans. It was surprisingly easy to slice thru the bushing and then "peel" the bushing off the shaft. The shaft itself was in good condition - no scratches or scoring. While it was still masked off I lightly sanded the shaft to get the burnt oil residue off the shaft then flushed it out good before removing the masking.
I already had a new gear with bushing that I got from Kick-Start. I measured the shaft and the inside dia. of the bushing with my vernier caliper and, as near as I can tell, there is .003 clearance. I'm not sure what clearance I had on the one that seized and I'm not sure if there is a spec. for it, but it feels loose enough. I can feel it "wiggle" on the shaft If anyone thinks I should have more clearance please let me know... would rather take it apart now and hone it out than take a chance that it will seize again. I don't want to have to go thru this again!

VintageTwin
Panhead Register Member
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:18 pm
Bikes: '46 Knuck. '57 Panhead, '59 Panhead
Location: Repop Hell

Re: Kicker problem

#12

Post by VintageTwin » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:02 am

0.003" sounds loose enough.
One time I had a problem like yours. Rode the machine on a 160 miler. Stopped in the high desert. Went to start the machine again, and the kick arm kicked right through without making contact with the motor. Kicker pedal met no resistance. Felt liked I'd sheared something. Had to push the Pan downhill and bump start it in second gear. Next day I went to start it. No problem. Pedal met resistance and truned the motor over like normal. The reason was, up in the desert, I had not pushed the rocker clutch pedal all the way to the floorboard, so the clutch wasn't engaged completely.
31/32" is the distance on the 3-spring clutch.

Post Reply

Return to “Transmission, Starter & Shifting”