transmission speedo drive

Transmission, clutch, chains and belts
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plattd
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Location: portland, OR

transmission speedo drive

#1

Post by plattd » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:41 pm

Hoping for some perspective on getting a speedo to work in a chopped 54 FL. Prior owner(s) had an cheepo AM speedo hooked up to cable running to tranny, said the it was broken--nope, the countershaft cluster has a smooth blank where the speedo drive gear is supposed be (AM countershaft cluster?). So here's the question: The trans shifts well, does not leak, and the internals seem clean--is it worthwhile taking the trans apart and replacing the countershaft cluster or are there other options I should consider? I've got this thing stripped down to the frame, wheels and trans anyway. Thanks.
David



51Hog
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 7:29 pm
Location: Wasilla, Alaska

Re: transmission speedo drive

#2

Post by 51Hog » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:53 pm

There is supposed to be a worm style drive gear pressed onto that smooth boss that you feel through the hole in the top of the tranny.
Wonder if it has somehow broken off and is laying in the bottom of the case....
Dale

plattd
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Location: portland, OR

Re: transmission speedo drive

#3

Post by plattd » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:03 pm

Well, I thought of that, but figured that might reveal itself by grinding,etc. What do you think out there--enough room in the bottom of the case for this worm ring to lay down and hide? I'm thinking it was just left off an aftermarket rebuild. My plan is to get the counter-shaft out of there and have the correct ring drive gear pressed on. Unless there's some nifty alternative I'm not thinking of. Any thoughts/experiences appreciated.
David

51Hog
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Location: Wasilla, Alaska

Re: transmission speedo drive

#4

Post by 51Hog » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:22 pm

I can't remember if there is enough room for the speedo drive gear to slide off of its boss and ride beside it or not.
Could be that it is there but beside the boss?
Dale

Hauula Pan
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Location: California

Re: transmission speedo drive

#5

Post by Hauula Pan » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:44 pm

David, If there was a gear and it broke etc. you would surly have pieces of metal in the gear oil. It would have almost certainly have also done other damage, so I would suspect like you that it was simply never installed. Since you have the bike down anyway you might as well go ahead and tear into the trans. & fix it. There are plenty of options for after market speedos out there as well as OEM's from other years that drive off the wheel hub. If the bike is chopped and you are going to keep it that way you could use an after market set up that drives off the wheel but unless you have wheels that are compatible it would cost just as much as fixing the trans. and running the proper drive, cable, speedo. set up. So I'd recommend fixing the trans. Just be sure you get the right gear & drive set as they come in both 1:1 and 2:1 ratios as do the speedo heads. They need to match or you'll end up reading 60mph when you're really going 30 or vise-versa.

john HD
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Re: transmission speedo drive

#6

Post by john HD » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:52 pm

it probably never had one because the tranny internals are for a late model front wheel speedo set up.

john

plattd
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Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:04 am
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Location: portland, OR

Re: transmission speedo drive

#7

Post by plattd » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:45 am

Thanks, you're confirming my suspicions. My pick-up gear has 11 teeth, so my understanding (taken from Palmer) is I need the 7 tooth ring gear, even though most supplers list it as 11 tooth. I think they must mean 'fitting 11 tooth' because the OEM numbers seem to agree with Palmer on this. A touch confusing. I think I'll dive in, digital camera in hand. But tell me, once I get in there and need to order odds and ends (hopefully just the little stuff), are there any sign-posts to look for to let me know which year/type of trans I've got? Any well known traps?
Again, thanks for the worthy comments.
David

62pan
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Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:39 pm

Re: transmission speedo drive

#8

Post by 62pan » Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:35 pm

Actually, it is not all that hard to do. The countershaft cluster can be removed without taking any other gears out of the transmission. Buy a manual (if you don't already have one), and follow the instructions.

LittleAl
Posts: 263
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Bikes: 1954 FL Panhead
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Re: transmission speedo drive

#9

Post by LittleAl » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:54 pm

whithout totally taking over this thread, how can you tell what speedo you have and which drive you need?

I have an original 1954 ratchet top tranny. I now have the hand shift top that I'll be putting on. The speedo drive is missing and the hole covered with a plate.

I bought two speedo's off ebay. Both are definitely OEM. One appears to be a late 50's early 60's Police Special the other seems to be the same vintage. I'm basing that statement on the dial face styles. I rebuilt the Police Special one with parts stolen from the regular speedo. the insides look identical. The problems with the PS one were the magnets & casing/drum/whatever it's called. I left the PD gears. I now have a working (as tested with a drill & old speedo cable) PS speedo but have no idea which drive to get for it. I believe they come in 11 & 12 tooth versions?

With a low RPM drill the needle goes up smoothly and maxi's out at about 58 MPH. the odometer and tripometer work. the speedo I stole the parts from went 0-120 mph, the PS one goes 10-100 mph.

I know it's a mish mosh but anyone have a clue which drive is my best shot?

Thanks!

Hauula Pan
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:15 am
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Location: California

Re: transmission speedo drive

#10

Post by Hauula Pan » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:59 am

Plattd, Take many - many pictures before and as you take things apart!!!!! I just rebuilt the 4-speed for my 52 and found the timing marks on my shift cam & gear long gone. By referring to the pictures I took before and during dissasembly I was able to see the original positions and count the teeth to re-align everything. First try was 1 tooth off and bench test went into all but 4th completly. Moved things 1 tooth and next test all 4 gears & neutral all hit right on. Without those pictures I'd have been S.O.L. LittleAl, roll the dice bro. ???

plattd
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:04 am
Bikes: 54 FL
Location: portland, OR

Re: transmission speedo drive

#11

Post by plattd » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:03 pm

Thanks, Hauula Pan. It's going well so far--insides were clean, lots of pics. Here's a question: my counter shaft roller bearings had been installed with their inboard ends against just the lock rings and the inner retaining washers were then mounted against the outboard ends. This seems and looks wrong according to manual, no? Also, the starter side gear end washer, which I think should act as the outer retainer for the rollers, has those four little indents--I'm thinking they are there for lubrication, but it also seems like they might snag a roller. Any thoughts?

plattd
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:04 am
Bikes: 54 FL
Location: portland, OR

Re: transmission speedo drive

#12

Post by plattd » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:12 pm

Back again. Just found an old 5 page thread on this same subject from 2005. Lots of good back and forth between ohio-rider, Cotten, VT, Jack, and others. Pretty well covers the bases. It's titled 'replacing speedo gear on 56pan'. Luckily, my rollers at least fit their cavity. Kinda makes me wonder about prior wrenches on this bike--a surprise around every corner, eh? Should'a known when I pulled a silicon booger out of rocker-arm oil hole.

David

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