Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

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LittleAl
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Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#1

Post by LittleAl » Sun May 31, 2009 7:48 pm

Ok, so I went to take her on her virgin ride and it was a no go. The good news is again, ice cold overnight, ignition on, choke on, gas on, retard timer, 2 kicks and she's lit!

now for the problem:

Original tranny had foot shift top, I put on a correct for my year tank shift lid. With the tranny still on the bench by hand turning the rear drive sprocket it went into each gear. No guarantee here that the tranny and shift are working properly with FULL engagement in each gear, but that's what I had 3 months ago when prepping the tranny for install.

with everything now installed and a rough adjustment on the shift rod it grinds a bit going into first or second gear but I get it to go without much pressure on the shift lever. I'm not sure if it's actually getting into first but definitely getting into second. In second as I release the clutch (foot clutch of course) I can go, it pulls the bike with no problem. In first I release the clutch and nothing. Same with the motor off. Put it into second and rock the bike I'm turning the motor, first I get nothing, just like in neutral.

I guess I have 2 problems. one being the clutch not fully disengaging causing the grinding. the other the tranny not fully getting into first gear. I thought I had the clutch adjusted properly. (3 finger hub) with a plate to plate distance of 31/32 and pushrod adjuster in snug then backed out 1/2 turn. I guess it could also be a combo of shift forks not adjusted correctly and shift rod out of adjustment. I guess I'm leaning towards, but hoping against, the shift forks.
my shift gate is one back for 1st, next forward is neutral, then forward for 2nd, 3rd & 4th. My logic tells me if I shorten the rod to pull the tranny top lever more forward ("more" into first gear) it will worsen the 2nd, 3rd & 4th gear situation. as it stands now, when I pull back for 1st I'm thinking it doesn't go all the way into first, shortening the rod would help BUT as it is now neutral (at the shift gate) is between neutral and 2nd and 2nd is closer to 3rd so shortrning the rod would only make it worse.

heres a pic for a visual for you guys. In this picture the shift lever is in neutral. it goes back about an inch for 1st from it's current position and about the same forward for 2nd. with the handshift tranny lid the lever faces down and the 8 o'clock position is 1st, 7 is neutral, 6 is 2nd, 5 is 3rd and 4 is 4th.
IMG_2527.jpg
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Last edited by LittleAl on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.



panz4ever
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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#2

Post by panz4ever » Sun May 31, 2009 8:18 pm

Just a quick thought. You mentioned you changed the lids and such. When you put it back together did you check the adjustment of the shifter forks. MoCo makes a tool for that purpose. Shifting clutches need to be centered. If not assemblies must be corrected by increasing or decreasing the number of shims between shifter fork and shifter finger. Thinking that might be a factor on the ugly shifting you are describing.

Other with more knowledge will be in on this soon I am sure. Glad you got it started so easily. Sounds like you are almost there.

john HD
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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#3

Post by john HD » Sun May 31, 2009 10:39 pm

al,

refresh my memory.

belt or chain primary?

john

LittleAl
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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#4

Post by LittleAl » Sun May 31, 2009 11:56 pm

chain drive.

I'm hoping you're wrong about the shift forks as I really don't wanna pull the tranny, but I suspect you might be right. I'm hoping someone comes up with a few ideas I can try first.

I had to give up for a while, I'm a good Italian son and go to mom's (she's 87) for dinner every Sunday, lol

BUT i was thinking while I was there and may have missed mentioning 1 thing in my long post. Currently I'm using a chain in place of the clutch rod (foot clutch to clutch arm) because when I was adjusting it I snapped the rod off in the clevis. I'll have replacements Tuesday. that will definitely account for the slight grind going into gear, I know, because of slack in the chain, I'm not getting full clutch disengagement.

indianut
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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#5

Post by indianut » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:18 am

Sometimes with aftermarket parts you might have to GRIND the slot a little further in the shift gate to get it into first and third and fourth with a compromise of the adjustment. In other words, if it will go into 2-3-4 gear, but not first, instead of changing the shift linkage just modify the slot so it can come farther down into first.

LittleAl
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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#6

Post by LittleAl » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:32 am

all OEM, shift gate, shift lever, tranny, tranny top. the only AM part in the whole thing is the shift rod from tranny lever to shift lever.

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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#7

Post by mbskeam » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:49 am

get one of these they do help a lot....
DSC_0085-1.jpg
DSC_0087-1.jpg
DSC_0088.jpg
DSC_0089.jpg

and your pressure plate may be warped, check with a straight edge....

shifter forks set right?
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Panacea
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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#8

Post by Panacea » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:58 am

Mike, how do you deal with the ABC adjustment system on the tamer with a five finger hub?I've got one on my five finger too but can't really set it up right...Mike

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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#9

Post by mbskeam » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:44 am

if you look at the top pic you will see arbor shims,
kept adding till I could not get the snap ring to pop into the groove, then I took out .010 and this gave me the end play I was looking for.
I think the stack was the same thickness for all, but this was a long time ago
it has been this way for years, so once it is set it should be good for a long time....

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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#10

Post by john HD » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:17 am

LittleAl wrote:all OEM, shift gate, shift lever, tranny, tranny top. the only AM part in the whole thing is the shift rod from tranny lever to shift lever.

that should all work. could it be the AM tanks?

is the distance from the piviot point to the shifter gate the same as stock?

i have a foot shift bike so i am no help other than asking the question. indiannut's statement got me thinking about what could limit travel.

john

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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#11

Post by DuoGlide62 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:13 pm

I'll bet it's a simple adjustment. Start with the clutch.
Last edited by DuoGlide62 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

VPH-D
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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#12

Post by VPH-D » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:34 pm

If you get away without checking the shifter forks, you will be lucky.
VPH-D

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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#13

Post by RUBONE » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:49 pm

Al,
If you did not space the shifter forks and dogs it will be a minor miracle if you ever get clean shifting. Not to mention the potential damage to the forks and dogs caused by partial engagement. Good luck on that.
To initially set the linkage disconnect the shift lever and work the linkage by hand several times to make sure you engage low and second with no binding or travel issues. It is easy to roll the gears with the kickstarter while checking it. If you are confident that it is engaging OK put it in neutral and see where the lever ends up. With it in neutral adjust the rod so the lever is centered in the neutral position. Don't try to get it tight to the stop, rather get it where the throw is equal both directions. If the trans top is set right when neutral is correct all the gears are correct. If the top is not right you are going to be pulling your gearbox to fix it or you will be pulling your gearbox to repair the damage later.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Robbie

LittleAl
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Re: Tank shift - tranny issues prevent my first ride :(

#14

Post by LittleAl » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:03 am

Well, it IS a miracle but that I got home from work while it was still light out and work on the Pan.

So, this is what I did. I re-read the SM on hand shift rod adjustment and followed it exactly. Put her up on the rear stand, disconnected the shifter rod at the tank lever, rotated the rear wheel as I shifted through all the gears by hand at the tranny top and positively found 2nd gear. Put the tank lever in the 2nd gear notch of the shifter gate and adjusted the rod length to just slip on without any movement.

After that I started her up (2 kicks, wooo hooo!) and ran her through the gears up on the rear stand. shifted nicely, found every gear where it should be. I did have the very slightest of grind going into first only, but with the chain instead of the clutch rod I know (due to slack in the chain) that I'm not fully disengaging the clutch. I also know that I'm testing without a load on the tranny due to the rear wheel being off the ground but I'm feeling like the rod adjustment may have been the problem.

Tomorrow I should have the new clutch rod so I'll get that on and adjusted and then be ready for an actual road test. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

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