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Motor/Tranny re-build

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Bam-Bam
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:52 am
Bikes: 1964 Duo Glide
1983 XLX
Location: Erbil, Iraq

Motor/Tranny re-build

#1

Post by Bam-Bam » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:20 pm

Hello All,

Guess I'm the FNG...I'm out here in Iraq while my Pan ('64 Duo Glide) faithfully awaits my return. Here is my delema...She is a (for the most part) a stock '64, only mods are 6v to 12v, unleaded valves, dual to single points, Primo 1-1/2" belt drive primary with dry diaphram clutch enclosed in stock primary covers, Jockey shift, accel coil, drag pipes and a sprung solo seat. I have had this bike since 1991 and it has been in my family since '69. The problem is she is starting to show her years and I'm up for a frame up resto. I have done most of the work on her myself but I think that some of the machine work is going to be a bit beyond my capabilities and to top things off.....my location won't make it any easier. What I would like to do is see if anybody out there has a recommendation for a top line shop that works on Pan motors. It seems to me most shops are just glorified garages and assemble bikes from parts they've ordered and motors/trannys they've sent out to be worked on. I can do most if not all of the assembly myself but I need a shop to ship my motor and trans to for a complete overhaul.....Here is a list of what I was hoping to have done to the motor:

Top end:
Ported and polished
Valve job, manley valves
roller rockers
S&S Super E
Bored .20 over .10 over now
Dual Plug the heads
Heavy duty springs


Lower end:
Balanced
S&S Oil pump
Mild cam
solid lifters/tappets
solid pushrods
possibly changing from points to electronic egnition or magnito

Trying to update her a little for reliability and fun crusing. I am interested in hearing all feedback...Positive and negative. Maybe you have some info on something I left out or missed or maybe one/some/all of my ideas for the motor are totally off base. All I know is I LOVE the bike but after 18 yrs I need a bit of a change....Thanks guys and I look forward to the responses.

Bam-Bam



john HD
Moderator
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Bikes: '42 WLA X 2, '55FL, '93 Ultra Classic, '91 Fatboy, '97 883, '71 Suzuki Duster 125, '83 GPz 750.

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#2

Post by john HD » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:46 pm

bam bam,

welcome to the forum, and thank you for your service in iraq.

where are you located in the states? a friend of mine has a shop here in wisconsin that may fit your needs.

mad city cycle service
3123 e washington ave.
madison wi
53704

608 241 5557

john

Bam-Bam
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:52 am
Bikes: 1964 Duo Glide
1983 XLX
Location: Erbil, Iraq

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#3

Post by Bam-Bam » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:09 pm

John,

Thanks for the quick response. I currently reside in Culpeper, VA. when not in the sandbox. I'm sure I can find someone to ship the motor/trans if needed. Thanks again and I will look into them. Bam-Bam out.

mbskeam
Posts: 1004
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:52 am
Location: Sultan, WASH
Contact:

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#4

Post by mbskeam » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:58 pm

check out this guy...

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=63

he's right in your back yard

if you want to hot rod a bike get a evo or twincam, then procede to beat the hell outa of it, and they are way faster also.....

build your pan up for the long haul.....

what branch?

Bam-Bam
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:52 am
Bikes: 1964 Duo Glide
1983 XLX
Location: Erbil, Iraq

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#5

Post by Bam-Bam » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:30 pm

Thanks for the info....Former Marine here, now working as Diplomatic Bodyguard for Dept. of State. BTW I've been looking at 2007/2008 Night Trains to purchase as my every day rider. Bam-Bam out

Bosheff
Posts: 1224
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:23 pm
Bikes: 65 FLH 82 FLH
Location: Michigan

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#6

Post by Bosheff » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:04 am

What ya got is a panhead. It will never be anything but a panhead. The only way you'll probably even feel like yer goin' faster than it goes now is to get rid of all the bagger stuff, the glide front end, and anything else that is not absolutely necessary to make it go down the road. Don't get wrong, a properly built engine that operates to its fullest potential is a thing of beauty, but there is such thing as overkill. Roller rockers (didn't know there was such a thing for pans), and ported and polished heads are a nice touch, but I don't see where they are needed for a good running mill dollar for dollar wise. Stick to the basics, pay attention to the details, and go only with proven upgrades for reliabilitys sake and you will be happy you did in the long run. Use quality parts, and have a competent shop do the work. Remember, taking away weight is the same as adding horsepower....bosheff

rrhawg
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:59 pm
Bikes: 59 Pan, 65 Pan, 45 Wl, 46 UL, 41 Chief, 48 Chief, 50 Chief, 53 Hummer, 53 Simplex, and misc. others
Location: Newport, Oregon

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#7

Post by rrhawg » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:05 am

If you want to do this kind of work, to your heads, you would be better off to buy a set of STD heads that are already dual plugged and maybe get them with the shovel intake, which will flow better. The roller rockers are a good idea and you can have Baisley High Performance build you a set, they are in Portland Oregon and do exceptional work. They will take your old rockers and put rollers on them.
Rich

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#8

Post by Cotten » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:17 am

Bam-Bam!

I too appreciate your military service.

And I would like to echo Bosheff's sentiment about glorified performance packages when applied to a machine that hasn't the airflow to take advantage of them.

Pans are torque machines.
Maximizing horsepower at high R's only sacrifices their finer attributes,.. For just a sack of money.
Not to mention paying at the pump forever after with your gas mileage going out the pipes.

True performance is under seventy miles per hour, not over it.

Even Shovel valves in a Pan is going the wrong way.
What the hell is an unleaded valve anyway?

....Cotten

FlatHeadSix
Moderator
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Location: Lonoke, Arkansas

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#9

Post by FlatHeadSix » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:43 am

Cotten wrote:What the hell is an unleaded valve anyway?
....Cotten
Cotten, I can't believe you don't know about unleaded valves! They're made from Kryptonite intended for use with Plutonium seats, they are gauranteed to not swell up or dissolve when exposed to Shell Super Premium P4 fuel with nitrogen additive.

Ask Shifty, he knows......

mike

Bam-Bam
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:52 am
Bikes: 1964 Duo Glide
1983 XLX
Location: Erbil, Iraq

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#10

Post by Bam-Bam » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:18 pm

Maybe I mis-spoke...by Unleaded Valves I was reffering to having the original 1964 valves that were designed to run on leaded gas replaced with valves that would run on unleaded gas without a hole being burned through them from the lower octane and lack of lead. As for the dual plugging I was looking to increase flame travel since it is partially blocked by the dome of the piston as it rises to TDC and increases detonation. I understand I own a pan and thats all it will be...Understandably the porting and polishing might be a bit of overkill but I figured since I was going to have the motor rebuilt I might as well have it DONE, but I will heed the advice on that front. As for STD heads or Shovel Heads to make it breathe easier....I'd rather stick with my original heads and deal with the asthma of the Pans....I appreciate all of the advice....I'm not trying to turn it into something it's not...Just wanted to increase reliability and maybe tweek performance a little. Thanks again all. Bam-Bam out.

Cotten
Posts: 6911
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#11

Post by Cotten » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:26 pm

Bam-Bam!

The original 1964 valves were not specifically designed for leaded fuel.
They were merely the state of the art for the time.

Valve materials had long before proven their ability to withstand the hotter flathead combustion temperatures, so the notion that the lack of lead alone would burn through a Panhead valve is silly.
FLs could run forever on regular gas (the pump that did not say "Ethyl").
FLHs benefited from the higher octane fuel, but frankly, regular back then had as high of an octane rating as premium today!

The modern notion that lead was for top end lubrication is specious revisionism.
Any insulating or lubricating effect was a very minor side-benefit compared to the cheap and easy octane boost, which lowered combustion temperatures.
Also ignored is the destructive effect of lead upon motor oil, and sparkplugs.

The term "un-leaded" didn't even come about until the energy crunch of the late seventies, when fuel for high-compression motors became scarce. It was a sales pitch buzzword for the innovations of the time: coated valve stems and seals. Those are now state of the art even if you have leaded fuel.

On to porting and polishing:
If you already have FLH ports, there is little more you can do.
At Panhead flow rates, you may enjoy better fuel mixing by roughing the inside of the ports. The benefit of polishing may only be at WFO, if at all.

Pans are torque motors.
They deliver fuel efficiency and pulling power over a wide range of revs, as they were designed for a country connected by country roads.
But then came Eisenhower's Interstate system.
When the ports were changed for flow in the Shovelheads, the motors belatedly edged into the world of horsepower for the increased demand at highway speeds. This meant a shifted and peaked powerband that actually compromised the motor's life expectancy, when compared to the longevity of Pans.

I think I've made every possible mistake with hopping up Pans.
A simple 4 1/2" stroke is the only one that was worth it.

....Cotten

Bam-Bam
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:52 am
Bikes: 1964 Duo Glide
1983 XLX
Location: Erbil, Iraq

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#12

Post by Bam-Bam » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:40 pm

Thanks Cotten...Very informative.

fourthgear
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:12 pm
Location: north florida

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#13

Post by fourthgear » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:32 pm

I have to agree with Cotten (don't fall over or any thing Cotten ) but keep it as stock as you can and if you want performance ,meaning easy starting ,fuel milage , just better runing all around , go with an electronic ign. of some sort ( I have a Mallory on both of mine & love them ) . The S&S carb is not bad , but I have found (as others have ) that the newer CV 40's are extreemly good performers , when set up right , on Panhead motors . Don't go too crazy on the cams , just makes them finiky to start. If you want a little more power ,so to speak , go with a stroker . My 65 @ 86 ci, runs real strong.

Be careful over there , come back & enjoy your Pan.

doug_heisel
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:45 am
Bikes: 1952 FL
Location: Ottumwa Ia

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#14

Post by doug_heisel » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:23 am

BamBam
I just wanted to jump in and say thanks for your service to this great country and Keep your head down and your powder dry.
Doug

quangtri
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:53 am

Re: Motor/Tranny re-build

#15

Post by quangtri » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:17 am

After hanging around here for a couple years this is my first post. Thanks for your service! This August I rode my 60 Duo Glide from up state Ny. to Columbus, Ga. I have it stroked to 84" with 10 over Pistons,belt drive primary 23 tooth tranny sprocket, 12 volt with Mallory elec ign, S&S oil pump and series E carb and Jims big axle roller tappets. I used S/E 20-50 syn oil and used less than 1 Qt. round trip, 2,300 miles. I had 12,000 mi. on rebuild when I left and never had any doubts about making it, 3/4 of my miles were highway and I always kept it below 63mph. I only had 2 problems,elec module failed in the mallory dist. and one fuel line vapor lock.My saddle bags were mostly full of tools and spare parts including a module. I did this ride solo so I wanted to be prepared. I've had a few pans and find this combo to be what fits me the best. It's not a rocket and doesn't always start on first kick, I blame that on the Crane cam. I could have done this on my 02 FLHT but that would just be boring.as you can see it's not radical but very dependable. Just some of my expirence with a solid,mild pan. Hello to everyone. Quangtri

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