clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

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craig60pan
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clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#1

Post by craig60pan » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:49 pm

Hope everyone is having a great holiday.
I decided to fix the stripped drain plug hole in the tranny and pulled the primary to check the clutch at the same time.
Good thing I did as the clutch discs were covered in an oil/grease paste. Thinking I might as well rebuild it since it was out I have generated a few questions on how to proceed.
Hopefully some of you have opinions on what works best. Not a stickler for 100% original.
I plan to replace the balls bearings with roller bearings. Need to replace the drive pins as well (gouged). The clutch discs are saturated but the steel plates look good. Need to test the pressure on the spring but the length looks OK.
I have an aftermarket 5 drive pin 5 disc 4 plate setup I was going to use on the 60 pan (had a belt drive before) but could use on the 51 instead.

Questions:
I see that on the 51 that the outer disc is riveted to the pressure plate. If I replace with the same disc pack I assume that it needs to be riveted as well, is that true?
If I go with the 5/4 disc pack and the later spring set, it does not look like it is made to be riveted to the pressure plate.
Which setup is better?
Not going to be a high HP motor, want reliability as a daily driver
Any thoughts? Thanks
CJ
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NightShift
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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#2

Post by NightShift » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:28 pm

Dear CJ,
My thoughts are that replacing the balls with rollers is a no-brainer, but I would just sand off any burrs or shoulders on the drive pins and leave them. Putting in tairainian studs just makes things worse. 5 studs is a silly gimmick. Soak out them friction plates in gas and scrub them with coarse steel wool and run them.

Yes you want that outer spring plate too.

Just my thoughts, thank you for asking,

craig60pan
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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#3

Post by craig60pan » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:13 pm

Thanks NS
The picture doesn't show it too well but the gouges in the pins are not insignificant. Although it doesn't cost anything to try and clean them up.
Reattaching new drive pins did seem like a pain to do.
The 5 pin is one I picked up years ago from a guy clearing out old parts - new and cheap at the time
The plates do look like they have a bit of meat on them so I could do the soak thing, just need to redo the rivets on the pressure plate (and hub).
Sure be a lot cheaper to do just but the rivets and bearings and reuse everything else.
CJ

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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#4

Post by NightShift » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:08 pm

Dear CJ,
I see the photos now and those studs look fine. Hell there just broke in. And when you put a fresh hub liner on, the head of the rivet should face the drum not the tranny. Those are backwards. Dont get upset if the balls chewed things up it just holds lube for the rollers.

Dont forget you will need a puller with an extra set of five holes next time you need to pull your five stud hub,

craig60pan
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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#5

Post by craig60pan » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:53 pm

I went back and looked at the pins again and given their job to guide the plates, they will clean up fine.
Took the balls and cage off and the hub looks surprisingly smooth. So all is well there.
As to the 5 pin, I have a couple of projects before I get back to the 60 FL so I have some time to think about that one
CJ

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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#6

Post by Bosheff » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:04 am

Take Nightshift's advice and shitcan the 5 finger hub. Why would ya give up a genuine hub for one of them pieces of junk?....bosheff

craig60pan
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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#7

Post by craig60pan » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:38 am

Don't hold back Bo, tell me what you really think. :lol:
For the 51, I am rebuilding the original 3 pin, for the 60 the jury is still out.
Between now and when I get to it I could strip the parts I need from the 5 pin and rebuild a used 3 pin
Food for thought
CJ
Update I just went through the parts boxes for the 60 and it has a 3 pin hub, the clutch shell is the only difference for the belt drive sprocket.
That settles that.

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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#8

Post by Bosheff » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:50 pm

I am by no means an expert on this subject, but I think Cotton went into this in an earlier posting, and said it very well. These are not his words, and I will not even try to quote him, but in essence he compared it to a 3 legged stool verses a 5 legged stool if ya git my drift. My own experiences with these overengineered piles of dung is that they are all imported, and it's like a dog chasin his own tail tryin to adjust em. By the time ya think ya gottem adjusted, one of em is loose again. Tighten that one up a bit, and another is loose, and on and on. Nightshift also brought up a good point. Ya gotta have a puller that will work with 5 studs versus 3. And last but not least, ya got 2 extra and not needed studs to replace. Life is to short to deal with these things when the old 3 stud design works just fine in most stock applications if everything else in the system is up to snuff. Nuff said....bosheff

craig60pan
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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#9

Post by craig60pan » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:20 pm

I agree with the "if it ain't broke don't fix it theory"
3 pin works for me, the 5pin is back in the 'someday I will sell on Ebay pile'
One last question, does the half plate need to be riveted to the pressure plate?
Seems like I have seen it both ways
CJ

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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#10

Post by Schwee » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:11 pm

Hot Tip: Don't "soak" the friction plates in anything.
Wipe off the loose gunk as well as you can, grab them (and a beer) and take a seat on the driveway or sidewalk. Now, flatten your hand on a disc and rub it in a figure eight on a rough, flat section of concrete. Yeah, you're sanding off some of the asbestos (or whatever it is), but don't sweat it. Polish both sides of each disc on the concrete until they are fresh and look like new. Takes about 10 minutes to do the whole set and you're ready to re-install them.
You may think that you're grinding off good surface, but you can do this several times a year for several years before you need to replace the plates.
Try it; you won't go back!

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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#11

Post by NightShift » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:16 pm

Schwee wrote:Hot Tip: Don't "soak" the friction plates in anything.
Wipe off the loose gunk as well as you can, grab them (and a beer) and take a seat on the driveway or sidewalk. Now, flatten your hand on a disc and rub it in a figure eight on a rough, flat section of concrete. Yeah, you're sanding off some of the asbestos (or whatever it is), but don't sweat it. Polish both sides of each disc on the concrete until they are fresh and look like new. Takes about 10 minutes to do the whole set and you're ready to re-install them.
You may think that you're grinding off good surface, but you can do this several times a year for several years before you need to replace the plates.
Try it; you won't go back!
Dear Schwee,
If it works so good, why do you gotta "do this several times a year for several years"? I think you left out the barbeque step.

And Dear CJ,
Which pressure plate do you mean, the spring pack plate on the outside, or a plate with a lining on one side and leaf springs on the other that goes next to it? Or?

Did you find all of your rattler balls?

craig60pan
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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#12

Post by craig60pan » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:58 pm

NS
This one
The plates were pretty gunked up but once I got them clean the rattlers worked the way they should
CJ
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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#13

Post by Schwee » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:24 pm

NightShift wrote:
Schwee wrote: Dear Schwee,
If it works so good, why do you gotta "do this several times a year for several years"? I think you left out the barbeque step.
You know why.

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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#14

Post by Panacea » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:02 pm

Craig, You have the spring disk inside out if that's how it was when you removed it, the friction material side goes toward the steel plate, the spring side goes toward the pressure plate. I think that's what you are asking?...Mike

craig60pan
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Re: clutch replacement suggestions 51 FL

#15

Post by craig60pan » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:16 pm

Pan,
The picture distorts the image a bit with the remaining grease and oil. I have not taken it apart yet but the friction material side is toward the steel plate and the the spring side does go toward the pressure plate.
My question is does it need to be riveted as it is in the picture?
CJ

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