1-2 Counter shaft question

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partshunt
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1-2 Counter shaft question

#1

Post by partshunt » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:25 am

Hi all, Has anyone changed out the early 1-2 countershaft 15 and 20 tooth gear for the later 17 and 20 tooth gear. To do this, you have to also change to the solid 3rd gear as the early bushing gear dont match thrust wise. After doing that, does the newer 59 on 3rd gear mesh properly with the 3-4 countershaft gear? Going from 15 teeth to 20 on low I kept the original 26 tooth low and it meshes fine looks like...I hope this isnt too darn deep but I gotta ask,,,Joe



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Re: 1-2 Counter shaft question

#2

Post by partshunt » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:39 am

I need to make a correction regarding teeth on the late 1-2 countershaft, it is the later one but still the same as orig. having 15 and 20 teeth with the deep recces to take the deeper plain 3rd gear non bushing type gear. All this is going into a 47 knuck 4 speed. Is this a good fix to update the 1-2 countershaft and non bushing 3rd gr.? I ask because it sounds like a meat grinder turning it over backwards...Joe

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Re: 1-2 Counter shaft question

#3

Post by Bosheff » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:23 pm

I am gonna assume that yer talkin bout the mainshaft 1-2 cluster, right? As I remember somewhere around 1959, the factory changed the m.s. 1-2 cluster as well as m.s. 3rd gear. These have to be used as a set because the new m.s. 1-2 cluster was machined with a different recess to match the new m.s. 3rd gear which no longer had the bushing, but was now 1 solid piece. What you are doin I'll assume is goin to the later FX gearin, right? To do this conversion in an earlier FL box, basically you will go to the FX 1-2 m.s. cluster gear, the newer m.s. 3rd to match up with the 1-2 cluster, and the later FX c.s. 1st gear to complete the swap. This is a pretty straight forward deal, and other than the obvious, requires nothing more than replacing the bearings, seals, and what not that are associated with a rebuild. Sounds to me like ya got some bad bearings either on the mainshaft, the countershaft, or both. As a sidenote, the the later FX gears have a groove machined into the 1st gear side of the m.s. 1-2 gear, while, the c.s. 1st gear also has the groove machined into it for ease of identification....bosheff

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Re: 1-2 Counter shaft question

#4

Post by Bosheff » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:39 pm

Upon further thought, on yer later FX m.s. 1-2 cluster, the groove was machined between the gears on the cluster, instead of on the 1st gear itself. Furthermore, the factory didn't go to the taller gears in the FX until I believe 1974, therefore the 71-73 FX's had the standard bagger tree stump pulling 1st gear....bosheff

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Re: 1-2 Counter shaft question

#5

Post by partshunt » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:41 pm

Yes, boss. As mentioned, I'm reffering to the m/s 1-2 cluster and related third gear. the 1-2 M/S Cluster is the same as the old gearing, 15 and 20 tooth so I am ok with the original 1st and 2nd rotaters and they mesh well, no noise. All new bearings, nice fits there. Bearings Roll quite and easy. With the trans all assembled now and I spin it over in the forward direction, its very quite and normal sounding. Its when I spin it over backwards, I hear a definate tooth contact noise, enough to even feel it at tooth speed or rate. I fear it will be nice under load but may be noisy coasting or backing off and decellerating. I think its originaing at the third gear due to wear possibly but at least with your answer, this update is doable and gear tooth pattern was never changed with these new gears and should mesh under normal conditions. I ran yellow dye on them and the contact pattern looks normal in both directions. In other words, acording to your reply, these gears are compatable and I must thank you very much for that. Have you or anyone done this changeover as I prefer the third gear without the bushing design. All input is helpfull and much apreciated, thanks again.......Joe

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Re: 1-2 Counter shaft question

#6

Post by Bosheff » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:21 pm

O.K., I understand what yer doin. I was under the impression that you were changin from bagger gearing to FX gearing, but in reality yer just updatin from the old pre 59 M.S. 3rd gear with the bushing, to the later 3rd without the bushing. No big deal. Just use the later M.S. 1-2 cluster with the newer M.S. 3rd gear and yer in business. As far the grindin yer hearin when ya spin the tranny mainshaft in the clockwise direction, check the spring behind the kicker cover (starter clutch spring), and see if it's scraping against the bearing housing retaining plate. The best way to do this is to pull the kicker cover and rotate the shaft and look and listen. If it is scrapin , you'll see and hear it. Additionally, it is not unusual for a 4 speed mixer to howl a bit in 3rd gear even in a fresh box....bosheff

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Re: 1-2 Counter shaft question

#7

Post by partshunt » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:32 pm

Yes, its just an update and as long as the tooth cutting is the same, then all is well in that regard. My 54 howls in third in coast and decelerating. Was just hoping to avoid a similar problem on this old knuck trans. All back lash is .004" to .006 except third gear, comes to a whoping .011" back lash. Possibly the gears there could be a better choice if new. Thank you very much, I sure apreciate your responses and help. I will look into the kicker spring as well......Joe

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