Replacing Speedo Gear on 56Pan

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Ohio-Rider
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Replacing Speedo Gear on 56Pan

#1

Post by Ohio-Rider » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:18 pm

I'm opening up my 56 4-speed(kick only) tranny to replace the speedo-gear. I've never opened one of these before but I'm sure with the help I've always reciever here I can get thru it.
I'm going to pull the pulley off the tranny tonight thanks to Vintage Twins information. I plan to record all side clearances before dis-assembly cause the tranny works fine now and that will give me a referance point later. Seems like a simple R&R to me.
Anyway I need to start ordering parts and the books only call out an O.E.M.#35635-36 speedo gear. Wheren't there 2 differant drive-unit gears for that year so I'd assume there should be 2 differant speedo gears? Right?-Steve



Jack_Hester
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#2

Post by Jack_Hester » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:41 am

Steve -

Was there some damage to the existing gear? Just curious as to why it needed changing.

Jack

Ohio-Rider
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#3

Post by Ohio-Rider » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:23 pm

Jack- I'm replacing it cause there is no speedo gear on the cluster. It has what appears to be a blank which never got the teeth cut into it. I got it apart last night and will post a photo later today. When removing the cluster last night all the needle bearings from both ends fell out and got mixed together so I'm hoping tonight to be able to match them back up to the side they came out of. So much for my thought of a simple R&R-Steve

Cotten
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#4

Post by Cotten » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:52 pm

Steve!

It sounds like a wormdrive gear was never installed upon the clustergear. This is the way latemodels with frontwheel speedos were produced.
You can easily press one on, however you will need to put it between centers with a dial indicator to know when it's perfectly true.

You can run latemodel speedos with a vintage face if you install the late ratio. Saves big $$!

....Cotten

PS: I'd save those old rollers for cleaning tanks and buy a new set.

Jack_Hester
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#5

Post by Jack_Hester » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:47 pm

Steve -

Cotten is right. Trash the rollers. New ones are very inexpensive. Good insurance. Inspect the shaft surfaces and bearing faces inside the gears, along with the main bearing race and main drive gear bearing face. Use a magnifier to look for fractures in the metal. Or, the obvious pits found in some. Now is the time for a good inspection.

Glad there was no other problem, other than exploring.

Jack

Ohio-Rider
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#6

Post by Ohio-Rider » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:28 am

Took some photos and some measurments tonight and gave everything a good looking over till I understood how it all works. My new Palmers book is great reading. Still making my shopping list and will include new .1250 roller bearings.
If I understand this right since my:
I.D. bore of races= 1.0070/1.0075 and Counter Shaft Diameter= .7550 then my plug fit would be .1260 so with .1250 diameter roller pins that give me .0005/.001 running fit. Sound right to you?
Cotton,Thanks for I.D.ing this thing as a candidate for a pressed on wormgear. The books I have don't list a part number for a pressed on worm gear. Are there easily avalibale? The O.D. on cluster for wormgear is 1.191 and .310 thick.-Steve
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Cotten
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#7

Post by Cotten » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:16 am

Steve!

The bottom line on roller fits is a dry (or minimally lubed) trial assembly.
Mic's won't fortell a bind, or slop from eccentric wear.

If a choice of roller size is in question, I would opt on the side of slop, as these transmissions are what (in my opinion) made HD. The are damn near bulletproof, and good for the life of three engines, even suffering sidecar duty.
They have the ultimate mechanical virtue: They are forgiving.

I think I always ordered worm gears from Tedd, and they appeared OEM NOS, even the late ones. The real agony is sorting out the different teeth numbers and ratios for the different drives. (Especially confusing if anyone has a mid-year 1961! ) Beware of erroneous catalog entries, pulp mag references, etc.
You might try http://www.nosparts.com/ or http://www.45partsdepot.com/index.php for the best chance at the real thing.


....Cotten

Jack_Hester
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#8

Post by Jack_Hester » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:01 am

Panhead -

I'm able to log in, but must do it each time. The BBS won't remember me each time.

Cotten & Steve -

I just got two of them from NOS Parts, in Ohio. The OEM are not priced, but the aftermarket ones are $20.00. I ordered with the OEM number, and they were $60.00 each. Glad to hear that the replacements are good. Tom is good about pulling these things out of the air, when other suppliers have only the part number and no parts to go with them.

Jack

VT

#9

Post by VT » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:52 pm

Just checking some facts here. Let me know if I'm wrong 8):
2:1 ratio speedo's are for '36-67 Big Twin transmissions. 1:1 ratio speedo's are for '68-73. OEM speedo's have a female (f.i.p) connection on the back of the speedo. Repop speedo's are male pipe (m.i.p) on the back..
Speedo cables: Repop BT speedo's need female x female cables. The V-Twin part number for repops is (36-0621), listed in the catalog as '62-80 FL, black vinyl. It has a 5/8ths female x female connection on the instrument end of the cable, to connect to the (male) connection on the back of the repop speedo. OEM speedo's use the V-Twin (36-0620) male x female cable.
Drive Gears: The drive unit assembly (VT 36-0810) for '36-61 Big Twins (67130-36) has 11 teeth, and a 7 tooth drive gear staked onto the countershaft cluster inside the transmission. (A 13 tooth drive unit assembly is for later model Big Twins.)

VPH-D
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#10

Post by VPH-D » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:05 pm

1936 -1961 are 2/1 drive, with female speedo fitting.
1962-1980? are 1/1 drive, with male speedo fitting. The 1980? is because I don't remember when the FLH switched over to front wheel drive unit.

1936-1956 cables are large diameter with male fitting.
1957-1961 cables are small diameter with male fitting.
1960-1980? cables are small diameter with female fitting.
VPH-D

Ohio-Rider
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#11

Post by Ohio-Rider » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:11 pm

Got all my parts ordered today from N.O.S. parts. They had everything I needed to put this thing back together. Speedo-WormGear,C/S-Gear washer set for setting shaft end play,.1250(Standard) Roller bearings,22T sprocket and gaskets everywhere I need em. Under $100.00 :lol:
Anybody got any trick method to hold the 88 roller bearings in place while reinstalling the counter-shaft. I tried twice last night to reassemble using my old parts so that I could play with getting an idea about my side play and had trouble with rollers falling out.
One last thing. I didn't notice these during removal of cluster. Do the ends of the needle-bearings on the gear-end protrude above gear and ride along the face of the End-Gear-Washers? (The ones used for setting side play of cluster.)-Steve

Cotten
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#12

Post by Cotten » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:33 am

Steve!

The usual method used to be to glue in the rollers with very heavy grease. But then they invented disc brake grease that does not melt out in service. Not good.

I suggest using petrolatum, but your room temperature must be below 60F or they will really try your patience.
Please assess your clearances accurately before you assemble.

...Cotten

Ohio-Rider
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#13

Post by Ohio-Rider » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:44 pm

Thanks for the tip Cotton.
I tried using automotive wheel bearing greese last night that was out in the cold garage and it held everything together quite well for me. Reassembled and installed with old parts just for practice and this thing had about .040 side play. When my parts come in I'll be shooting for .010 side play.
Am I correct that the ends of roller bearings stick out passed the gear and contact the faces of the End-Play-Washers? It just don't look right to me. But the wear marks on the old End-Play Washer looks like thats how it was together. Would a photo help?

Cotten
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Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:09 am
Location: Central Illinois

#14

Post by Cotten » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:53 pm

Steve!

My previous post was a warning about modern disc brake greases.

And no, the rollers should not extend beyond the gear.

.....Cotten

VT

#15

Post by VT » Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:17 pm

Always does :!:

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