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Mainshaft third gear

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Robert Luland
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Mainshaft third gear

#1

Post by Robert Luland » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:39 am

Guys I need some guidance. I’m putting together a 1960 four speed box. The problem lies with the end play of mainshaft 3rd. I mocked it up and rigged up the dial indicator and got .027 end play. I shoot for .010 max. The third gear Andrews new and main shaft Shifton new (We all know who’s making that these days.). The first and second cluster are original. My question here is? Could the butt of second wear enough to allow the excessive end play of third. I can get a .020 over washer but is that the proper solution? 59 and up are always sloppy on the shaft. How about some input. Thanks, Bob L



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Re: Mainshaft third gear

#2

Post by partshunt » Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:34 am

Bob; One item check, is you cant use an early bushing style third gear with a later 1-2 mainshaft cluster. That area behind third gear is a deeper pocket than the older 1-2 mainshaft cluster. Yours should be the later cluster and later deeper bearing third gear haveing no bushing. these units are getting so old now, you never know who put what in the trans by now.....You could shim the back side of the 3rd gear so that third line up with the third on the 3-4 cluster. Dinking around but will work using steel washers..Is it a bushing type third gear?..........Joe

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Re: Mainshaft third gear

#3

Post by PanPal » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:41 pm

Dealing with the same issue now. I am told you can use selective spacers on the mainshaft now, but I would like to shim on the cluster side rather than the clip side. I have the non bushing third gear and 21 tooth second gear on the counter shaft. I haven't been able to adjust the shift forks so I could get all 4 gears since I purchased the bike. It's all apart now to get it right, but I am curious if you should shim between the cluster and third.

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Re: Mainshaft third gear

#4

Post by partshunt » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:43 pm

You can put a washer between the cluster and third gear but you should also have one next to the lockring. As for adjusting the shifter, can you borrow the tool from a shop to set up the shifter forks?...Joe

Robert Luland
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Re: Mainshaft third gear

#5

Post by Robert Luland » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:47 pm

PanPal I have to agree with Partshunt. Best thing to do is mock it up with the countershaft cluster in so you can see how third lines up. Can't see why you wouldn't be able to shim between second and Third as long as you can find a hardend spacer the fits in second cup comftable. If the gears are off a little. Make the spacer that measurement. Nothing any machine shop couldn't pop in a surface grinder and make any thickness you want. Bob L

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Re: Mainshaft third gear

#6

Post by Bosheff » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:04 pm

Maybe I missed somethin here, but do you know why you have so much clearance between M.S. 1/2 and M.S. 3? Fabricatin a thrust washer ain't about nuthin, but for my own info I would want to know why this condition exists....bosheff

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Re: Mainshaft third gear

#7

Post by PanPal » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:57 pm

I will find out why the problem exists when I take everything to a buddies house to build. He knows them well and has everything around to compare the guts of mine with. I am trying to collect parts I know I need and thought others had run into this and could offer a solution. we set it with the alignment tool a couple times, then I moved shims trying to engage into fourth better and still had issues. Some of the initial problems were from a V twin ratchet lid. That is resolved, the motor is fresh and now I want to make sure the tranny is gone through before it goes back in. I needed first/second shifter clutch. new 21 tooth second gear and to shim everything properly. The counter shaft had too much play and it looked like 3rd and 4th could be closer together if I remember correctly. The Andrews 1st/2nd shifter clutch I bought didn't have ramp in's on it. Neither did the one I removed. 3rd/4th clutch in it now does. Does the Andrews replacement 3rd/4th clutch have them?

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Re: Mainshaft third gear

#8

Post by Robert Luland » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:32 pm

Does the Andrews replacement 3rd/4th clutch have them?
Yes on main shaft clutch, no on counter shaft clutch.

Bosheff. I agree. I’ve been going at this for a week and a half. Compared the new main shaft to an OEM, they are the same right down to the clip grove. There is only two possibilities. One the ½ gear cup that third sits in to is worn? I don’t think so or The flutes that ½ slide onto are cut .025 short not allowing ½ to slide on far enough. And the answer is. The main shaft flutes are cut short were ½ go on. I put ½ on and made a spacer to replace the bearing. Tightened up the nut and put the third gear retainer clip on the shaft. I did this on the old oem shaft and got .464 from the face of second to the retaining clip. I did the same test on the two new shafts and got .489. There my friends is the .025 I’ve been looking for. The retaining clip groove is also wider than the oem. Some times the answer is right in front of you but out of frustration you become blind. Pesky little Asian rascals got me again. Now let’s see if the vender is going to make good on them.

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Re: Mainshaft third gear

#9

Post by PanPal » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:39 pm

Robert this sounds like what I am seeing. My cluster gear is tight on the splines may be so tight at the end it's not on all the way. The main shaft I have is aftermarket and likey the issues.

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Re: Mainshaft third gear

#10

Post by Robert Luland » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:42 pm

Panpal try my experiment and see what number you come up with.

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Re: Mainshaft third gear

#11

Post by StueyC » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:03 am

PanPal, you mentioned you had some issues after fitting a Vtwin ratchet lid. I'm also having problems after fitting one. What did you find wrong and how did you overcome the issues?

Thanks.
StueyC

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Re: Mainshaft third gear

#12

Post by PanPal » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:03 pm

Robert
I ended up taking a day off work yesterday and building my tranny. I never took measurments but the same parts fit right on an OEM shaft and I didn't need to make any shims. The aftermarket shaft showed considerable wear where the clutch gear bushing rides and the splines for my cluster gear were loose so I donated it to my buddies shop and swapped it out for a real shaft.

Stuey
I did too much for sure. First put a harley shift barrel in and throw away the cast barrel that comes with it. The pawl holder has a few problems. They used small roll pins to align the shift pawls and they swivel rather than hold square to the holder. They also did not drill the holes on center with the holes for the pawls. I set up in the mill and used an edge finder and redrilled the proper size hole below the old ones. Installed solid dowl pins and welded them on the outside of the holder. Next the bushing in the pawl holder is junk. I made one out of oillite bronze that was stepped and now contacts the face for more contact surface on the shaft. Had to take a light cut out of the ratchet cover and made a UHMW washer for the pawl carrier to ride against. It is now riding on the UHMW washer and the face of the new bushing so the carrier doesn't wobble around. I had to cut away some of the ramp sheet metal that is spot welded on so I could get enough throw to move the barrel from one lobe to the next. I polished the end of the plunger for locating the barrel. I elongated the slots for adjusting the ratchet. And now it works great. This is way too much work to put into a part to get it to function.
Last edited by PanPal on Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mainshaft third gear

#13

Post by Bosheff » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:34 pm

Better a good used "Genuine" H-D part than a new repop part....bosheff

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