Clutch Won't Disengage

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steve_wood
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Clutch Won't Disengage

#1

Post by steve_wood » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:08 pm

Okay, before I go tearin her all apart, just want to make sure I'm not out to lunch.

I've been trying to adjust the hand + mousetrap clutch. It was always very hard to pull. While adjusting it, the cable actually broke. It will be a while before I can get a replacement. In the meantime, I'm trying to make sure everything else is working.

Anyways, it seems like the clutch will not disengage. (By the way, the distance between the inner edge of the spring collar to surface of the outer disk is 31/32).

I've completely removed the clutch lever rod. I'm using a bar to manually move the clutch actuator.

Here it is in the "disengaged" position. In this position, with the bike in 1st gear, when I pump the kick start, the rear wheel turns a bit on the surface of the stand. This tells me that the engine is fully engaged with the transmission.
Clutch Disengaged.jpg
Here it is in the "engaged" position. In this position, which *should* break the link between the engine and transmission, the result is the same as above i.e. pumping the kickstart turns the rear wheel. This seems to tell me that the clutch is NOT engaged.
Clutch engaged.jpg
Am I missing something?

Any suggestions?

Puzzled.....
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john HD
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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#2

Post by john HD » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:16 pm

steve,

nope you have it backwards. when the booster is pulled it moves the bar forward disengaging the clutch.

john

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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#3

Post by steve_wood » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:28 pm

I think the terminology is confusing me. When the bar goes forward, the connection between the engine and the rear wheel is broken right?

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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#4

Post by john HD » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:33 pm

correct!

john

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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#5

Post by steve_wood » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:35 pm

And therein lies the problem. With the bar fully forward, the engine is still turning the rear wheel.

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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#6

Post by john HD » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:38 pm

steve,

how is your primary chain? if it is too tight it can cause drag on the clutch.

also, how many and what type of plates did you install?

john

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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#7

Post by Bosheff » Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:18 pm

First off, if the clutch cable broke that should tell ya somethin. A quality clutch cable should last a long time if kept lubricated on the ends and internally, and kept in proper adjustment. Try using "Triflo". It is liquid teflon in a spray can. It can be found in lock shops and gun shops as well as other retail establishments. Spray in one end of clutch cable and don't stop till it leaks out the other end. Check the bearings in the mousetrap. If they are gummy or dry, added effort will be needed to operate the mousetrap. Is the clutch pushrod centered in the mainshaft? If not, readjust to the specified 4 1/4" as per service manual. If not centered properly, you may be running out of pushrod travel which can cause added effort and possibly damage the kicker cover, throwout bearing, or clutch cable. The 31/32" pressure plate spring adjustment is a good place to start. I only compress the springs enough to keep the clutches from slipping. I adjust the adjustment nuts about three threads down on the studs. This is enough to keep the clutches from slipping in most applications. The farther you compress the pressure plate springs, the more effort is needed to disengage the clutches. Keep in mind that mousetrap adjustment and clutch adjustment are two completly separate operations, but must work together to obtain proper clutch engagement/disengagement. While kick starting or running the engine in nuetral with the rear wheel in the air, a small amount of wheel rotation will be noticed due to residual drag in the transmission. This is normal. If the trans is in nuetral with the engine running you will be able to grab the wheel and stop the rotation. Don't try to do this while the tranny is in gear as it will probably tear yer hand from yer arm. With the clutch arm all the way to the rear, the clutch is engaged. With the clutch arm forward, the clutch is disengaged. Adjusting the mousetrap per the manual is usually an exercise in futility. Try to understand the principles involved and the job become 1000 times easier. Make sure adjuster pushrod screw is not bottomed out on the clutch pushrod. Clearance is needed between the two to prevent damage to either. A properly adjusted clutch/mousetrap takes little effort to operate. Set up correctly, two fingers will do the job of disengaging the clutch. It should not be an effort to operate, nor should it take a conscious effort....bosheff

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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#8

Post by steve_wood » Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:32 pm

Thanks guys. Lots of things to investigate. This may take a while....

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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#9

Post by Ohio-Rider » Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:44 pm

Oops! bosheff already covered it.

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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#10

Post by steve_wood » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:08 pm

Wow. Even after removing all of the disks, cranking on the kickstart STILL moves the back wheel.

WTF ????
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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#11

Post by steve_wood » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:12 pm

That is just so strange it has to be that I'm missing something fundamental. But in my defense, the manual on page 152 says" "Usually a clutch that holds without noticeable slipping when cranking the engine will hold under normal road conditions." This seems to imply that cranking the engine, when it's in gear, is a viable way of testing clutch engagement and disengagement.

If anybody has a better method, please chime in.

I also found that the two outer friction disks are binding on the studs and posts. I tweaked the holes in the friction disks and now they move freely.

Could something that simple be the cause of this problem?

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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#12

Post by Bosheff » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:09 pm

Am I hearin ya right when ya say that without the clutches installed, the rear wheel spins when kickin it over? The only way this can happen is if the tranny is in a gear. Are ya sure yer in neutral?....bosheff

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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#13

Post by Ohio-Rider » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:11 pm

Steve, Are you saying that if you hold the back wheel still with your hand and push the kicker that it will turn the wheel right out of your hand? If you have a heavy 90w oil in the tranny that will also create enough drag to spin the wheel but is of no concern.

Also, yes any interferance with the clutch discs not being able to slide freely will cause a problem but from what your describing I wouldn't think it is your problem. Try holding that rear wheel and pushing the kicker down and report back. Someone here will surely get you past this.

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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#14

Post by steve_wood » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:37 pm

The bike is in 1st gear. Like I said, the manual says this is how you check if the clutch is engagoing or not. Obviously it's wrong; with the transmission in 1st gear, the crank is turning the mainshaft which is turning the rear wheel.

So what is a good way of checking whether or not the clutch is engaging or disengaging?

(Remember, my clutch cable is broken and I don't dare ride it like this....)O

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Re: Clutch Won't Disengage

#15

Post by Bosheff » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:06 pm

If yer in a gear, even without the clutches installed, the rear wheel is gonna spin when ya kick it through if the drive chain (rear) is installed. Install the clutches. Start with a fiber, steel, fiber, steel, etc till ya run out of em. Rotate the steels as ya install em so the buffers aren't stacked on top of each other. Install pressure plate. Adjust the 3 slotted nuts about 3 threads down on the studs. Now set the clearance between the clutch release arm and the lid drum at 4 1/4" as per manual. Make sure ya back off the adjuster screw about an 1/8th turn after reaching the desired setting. Make sure the primary chain is adjusted. Install rod that goes from mousetrap to clutch release arm. Adjust mousetrap by pushing the top of the mousetrap mechanism to the rear of the scooter. It will return under its own power. Be careful or you will find out why they call it a mousetrap. You do not need the clutch cable to check for engagement/disengagement at this point. This will get ya far enough into the process to tell if things are workin properly or not. When ya get a cable, install it and leave a small amount of free play at the lever. If all has been done correctly with half way decent parts, you should be in business. Fine tuning may be necessary....bosheff

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