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from chain primary drive to belt drive question

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BCOWANWHEELS
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from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#1

Post by BCOWANWHEELS » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:24 am

guys just before i put my old pan in storage 40 yrs ago I bought a karata inside the primary belt drive to get away from the oiling issue of the primary chain. seems like it made a big mess and technolagy has made a way to get away from this and keep the old look. any way heres a couple questions maybe somebody can help me with.
1. has anybody made a better trans tensioner adjuster, belts have to run dead on and seems to me a double style adjuster pulling from the trans mount studs on the bottom could be made into a nice adjustment points. anybody done this and possibly have pictures of there design ?
2. how can I shut off oil going to chain oiler with stock oil pump ?

thanks fellas once again
bob



King
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:05 pm

Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#2

Post by King » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:43 pm

Bob
Great to hear you are resurrecting your Pan.

In answer to your questions.

1. The concept you came up with is intriguing. It will be interesting to hear if anyone has done such an adjuster. Personally, I canned the adjuster on my tranny about 30 years ago it never worked worth a hoot. I Just carefully move the tranny into position using a broom handle between the tranny and the seat tube. One of my bros does it with the rear chain adjuster. Either chain or belt I’ve not had problems. You are more likely to have alignment problems from the clutch basket.

2. The simple answer to this is you really can’t shut off oil coming out the breather tube. You can screw the oiler adjustment screw in all the way but you will still have oil coming out the tube from crankcase breathing. Thus, you have to route a piece of plastic tubing from the breather tube out the rear of the inner primary cover. By inserting a section of spring into it you can prevent crimping. Some have situated the tube so it oils the rear chain.

One oiling problem you will probably run into, after the bike having been down so long, is “sumping”. This occurs when oil seeps past the check ball on the oil pump when the bike is sitting idle and puddles inside the crank case. Upon starting a big gush of oil comes out the breather tube. I would recommend removing the check ball and spring and carefully cleaning the ball and seat prior to first start-up.

Good Luck,

King

Cotten
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Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#3

Post by Cotten » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:47 pm

Bob!

Has an updated seal assembly been installed upon the sprocket shaft?

Has the tranny mainshaft been similarly updated?

There are a few different ways to divert the breather (but I would rather try to talk you into reverting to a chain instead!)

...Cotten

Bosheff
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Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#4

Post by Bosheff » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:59 pm

A device that bolts to the tranny rear case studs has been around since at least the 70's. This unit has 2 adjusters (one for each side), and will move the trans back squarely. Kind of an over engineered device if memory serves me. You may have to install longer studes in the trans case to make up for the thickness of the device. It's a pain in the ass if yer gonna try to use this adjuster with an aftermarket passenger peg setup that bolts to the frame crossmember. J&P markets this piece and I'm sure other still do also....bosheff

BCOWANWHEELS
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Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#5

Post by BCOWANWHEELS » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:11 pm

thanks guys I,ll check out the J&P WEB SITE. also cotten your input is always welcome, as far as the updated seal. I built this trans back in 1975 so I assume it does not have anythig but the original style seal and I do know it has all h/d internals with the exception of a full set of andrews close ratio gears, all new bushngs, bearings etc. it hasnt ever given me 1 problem.
I,ll have mopre pictures in a day or 2. i,ve been doing mock up assembly past few nights. sure takes me back to my youth.
bob
p/s
gotta get a new oil pressure gauge, my old one got damaged in storage. any ideas where to get a low psi oil filled gauge ? how about a low psi sensor for a idiot light ?

Image

51Hog
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Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#6

Post by 51Hog » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:02 pm

A couple of links to some info on the adjuster.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6312&p=25566&hilit= ... ter#p25566" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5077&hilit=51+hog+tranny+adjuster" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The belt drive works awesome on my 51. It is a BDL.
I have zero oil drips on the ground now----Unless she sumps....
Still need to burnish the seat--that should help.

Bigincher
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1952 FL
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Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#7

Post by Bigincher » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:23 am

Many decades ago when I installed a Primo belt drive on my '41 Knuck/Pan, I solved the issue of the chain oiler in the following way: The primary chain oiler is a vent tube through one of the case bolts, makes a 90* bend into the chaincase. I cut the 'bend' off the vent tube so it was straight (in line with the axis of the motorcycle) and rotated it so it pointed to the rear. Then I slipped a short piece of (3/8"?) rubber hose on it, of appropriate length, and pointed it to the rear drive chain, effectively 'converting' the primary chain oiler into a final drive chain oiler. In addition to that, I screwed the adjuster in all the way, but as has been said, that doesn't completely stop the flow, and I'm not sure you'd want to, anyway, as it is a 'vent'. (Note: Don't try to screw the adjuster screw in too tight...!)

islanddave
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Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#8

Post by islanddave » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:27 am

If you can swing it I would get one of these made up. Don't know if one without offset could be made? It looks very well made and would last forever!

Dave

http://www.fabkevin.com/tranny_plates.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BCOWANWHEELS
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Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#9

Post by BCOWANWHEELS » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:34 am

THANKS 51 HOG JUST EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR. I think I,ll fab one up while my scooter is on the assembly stand most likely out of stainless steel.
regards
bob

BCOWANWHEELS
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Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#10

Post by BCOWANWHEELS » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:00 am

islanddave ,
now thats a nice trans adjuster plate, one out of stainless would be super nice. gonna call kevin monday....
bob

51Hog
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Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#11

Post by 51Hog » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:58 am

it works as nice as it looks---

duoglide58
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Location: Oklahoma City

Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#12

Post by duoglide58 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:04 am

The dual adjustment is a better idea and I have a similar dual adjustment transmission plate that I bought many years ago. Problem is mine is on the shelf because it did not fit my transmission. I don't think the tranny is original to my bike but the plate was marketed as fitting all of the years. Turns out it would not accomodate "notches or recesses" in the bottom of the tranny. I forget what years of transmissions have the different mounting recesses, but it would be helpfull if you can lay an eyeball on the plate or at least a detailed photo before you buy it. P.M. me if interested, I can part with it since it has been on the shelf for 15 years.
Doug

Hawg
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Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#13

Post by Hawg » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:53 pm

Have You Concidered Updating Your Clutch Hub Bearings To Compliment Your Belt Drive? Look At V-Twin Part Number 20-0229 or 18-1216 I Have Not Run These . But Anything You Can Do To Tighten Up The Wobble In Your Clutch Basket Will Enhance The Operation Of Your Belt Drive. BTW Hello From Tennessee

Kuda
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Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#14

Post by Kuda » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:26 am

islanddave wrote:If you can swing it I would get one of these made up. Don't know if one without offset could be made? It looks very well made and would last forever!
http://www.fabkevin.com/tranny_plates.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Let me start by saying I'm a big fan of Kevin's work. He makes damn good parts that actually work better than what they replace, which is pretty rare in this world. That said, the problem with most aftermarket adjustment plates is the installation:

Step 1: Mill the bottom of the transmission case flat.

That's right, you have to mill the centering bosses off the bottom of the trans. Well, you certainly do for the one commonly sold in the V-twin catalog, not sure about Kevin's. But I suspect it's the same because of the extra material needed for the adjusters. At the very least, I'd shoot him an email about it before plunking down the money to make sure it's what you need...

-Kuda
'49 panchop

BCOWANWHEELS
Posts: 142
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Re: from chain primary drive to belt drive question

#15

Post by BCOWANWHEELS » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:15 am

TALKED TO KEVIN AND HE SAID HE DOESNT MAKE THE ADJUSTER FOR EARLY MODELS.. SUPER NICE GUY AND VERY HONEST TO TALK TO. THINK I,AM GONNA JUST RUN THE STOCK PLATE AND MESS WITH THE ADJUSTMENT TILL I GET IT RIGHT.
BOB

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