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Kicker repair on my panhead

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Mark44
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Kicker repair on my panhead

#1

Post by Mark44 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:27 am

I recently discovered that my trans was low on oil, so topped it off. I then discovered that oil was leaking at a pretty good rate out the kicker shaft.

After taking the kicker cover off I found that the kicker shaft bushings were pretty shot, plus the kicker shaft (one-piece old-style arm) looks like it's been hammered on.

I've pulled out the old pair of bushings and O-ring and will be replacing them as soon as the new parts arrive. The old bushings didn't come out easily, so I figure it might be difficult to press in the new ones. My plan is to heat the kicker cover to about 250 deg in my oven, and put the bushings in the freezer to get them to about 20 deg. I also plan to put one of the bushings in all the way, but not quite all the way for the other one, to leave room for the o-ring, which I'll put in when the cover cools down, so that I don't damage the o-ring with too much heat. After I put the o-ring in, I'll press the bushing in the rest of the way.

Is this a reasonable plan? I've checked the relevant threads in the knowledge base. In one of these Tom Cotten (I think it was) recommended heat and cold to help out with pressing in the bushings. Bruce Palmer doesn't provide any information on seating the kicker shaft bushings, so that reference wasn't any help here. I haven't done a search in the Forum itself, so it could be this is discussed somewhere.

Also, I don't have a hydraulic press, and am hoping to be able to squeeze these parts into place using a vise. Is that feasible or should I just take the thing to a machine shop and have them do it?

On a side note, I discovered what seems to be a casting fault in the bored hole in the kicker cover. I cleaned it up pretty well (using nail polish remover, which is mostly acetone), and filled the void with JB Weld. The void is not exactly in the middle, where the o-ring would be, but it just seemed like a good idea to fill in that hole, plus the slot I made in the bore when I hacksawed the old bushings to get them out. The JB Weld is supposed to be able to stand temps up to 300 deg.

In case anyone is curious, I ordered the replacement parts (bushings, o-ring, kicker shaft and arm, and kicker crank gear) from J&P Cycles, so I'm expecting these to be typical import part quality. I guess I'll see. Most of the kicker components were in pretty good shape, including the kicker crank gear itself, but the ears on the riveted-on plate were a little worn, so I went for a replacement crank gear.

Thanks,
Mark



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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#2

Post by Cotten » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:57 pm

Mark!

The press-fit on kicker cover bushings in usually only about .0015", and heat isn't necessary, except perhaps to remove old ones that are stubborn.

A large vise with soft jaws should do fine even cold. A hydraulic press is overkill; An arbor press would give more 'touch', or with suitable chamfers on the bushings, they can be installed with a simple screwpress: A large threaded rod through the bore, with large nuts and washers on the outside which will push the bushings in from either side.

Be sure to lube them well with press-lube or heavy grease.

Good luck!

...Cotten

Bosheff
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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#3

Post by Bosheff » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:16 pm

It's been a while since I installed any kicker bushings but if memory serves me correctly, you can press both bushing in flush with the cover and there should be enough of a void in the center to work the seal in by hand....bosheff

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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#4

Post by Robert Luland » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:19 am

Mark, Since nobody addressed the issue as a whole, I figure I pipe in. I know I'll get hell for this but here goes. One, you mentioned that you have a crack. This would under normal circumstance protrude in to the inside of the cover (If you only got one, count your blessings). Goup will not fix this and will only let the situation get worse. The inside of the cover around the bushing area needs to be welded up. The insertion of the bushings, why kill yourself. Throw it in the oven to 350F and the bushings in the freezer. You should be able to push them in by hand if not use a piece of hard wood as a drift, they should go right in with no resistance. Take your time and make shore the going in straight, not cocked. Now the one piece kick starter shaft is probably shot as most are. You can change all the bushings you want. If the mating surface is not in the standard, it won't last. You got two choices here. Buy an aftermarket kicker arm (YUK!) or have it repaired (Go baby!). Most machine shops have a spray weld unit. This is what we build up damaged race areas on shafts and then it's machined down to original size. Any shop with a 14.5" plus lathe can do this. Everything I've stated here depends on how much you love your motorcycle. For my girls? Only the best will do. Bob L

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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#5

Post by BCOWANWHEELS » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:38 am

NEVER HERD OF A SPRAY WELD......... ALSO SHOULD"NT THE KICKER GEAR ON THE INSIDE OF THE COVER BE TIGHT ON THE KICKER SHAFT ? MINE HAS SOME BACK & FORTH MOVEMENT AND THE NUT I KNOW WILL NOT HOLD IT TIGHT AS IT WAS LOOSE ENOUGH TO COME OFF BY HAND ONCE THE TABS WAS BENT AWAY FROM THE NUT.

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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#6

Post by Bosheff » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:08 am

I'm no expert on spray welding, but I know it's been around since at least the late 70's or early 80's. It is a proven quantity and does in fact work. Basically it's like spray painting only yer sprayin some sort or metal/steel on a part to bring it back. It needs to be machined to the finished dimension. As for the kicker gear that attaches on the kicker shaft, it has been my experience that if it does not fit properly (loose), on the shaft, one if not both pieces are usually aftermarket. A genuine gear and shaft will in fact have a sweet fit (tight), and when secured with the locking nut there will be no wobble so to speak....bosheff

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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#7

Post by Hawg » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:53 pm

I Saved My Old Bushings I Found I Could Shorten Them and Press Them Into The Mainshaft Starter Gear Just Bore Them To Match The Shaft and Cut In An Oil Groove

Mark44
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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#8

Post by Mark44 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:27 am

Robert Luland wrote:Mark, Since nobody addressed the issue as a whole, I figure I pipe in. I know I'll get hell for this but here goes. One, you mentioned that you have a crack.
No, there's no crack. I was pleasantly surprised to not find any cracks in either the starter crank bushing boss or the reinforcing ribs around it. What I found is what appears to be a casting void inside the crank bushing bore. It didn't look like it had been chewed up by some foreign object. This void was slightly away from where the O-ring would be, so it might have been OK to leave it, but I thought it would be best to clean it up and fill it in with JBWeld, which I have done.

The other bit of damage was self-inflicted, and was caused when I hacksawed a bit too deep at one end. I have also filled this with JBWeld. For both repairs I used small pieces of sandpaper (200 grit and 600 grit) to remove the extra JBWeld.
Robert Luland wrote: This would under normal circumstance protrude in to the inside of the cover (If you only got one, count your blessings). Goup will not fix this and will only let the situation get worse. The inside of the cover around the bushing area needs to be welded up. The insertion of the bushings, why kill yourself. Throw it in the oven to 350F and the bushings in the freezer. You should be able to push them in by hand if not use a piece of hard wood as a drift, they should go right in with no resistance. Take your time and make shore the going in straight, not cocked. Now the one piece kick starter shaft is probably shot as most are. You can change all the bushings you want. If the mating surface is not in the standard, it won't last. You got two choices here. Buy an aftermarket kicker arm (YUK!) or have it repaired (Go baby!). Most machine shops have a spray weld unit. This is what we build up damaged race areas on shafts and then it's machined down to original size. Any shop with a 14.5" plus lathe can do this. Everything I've stated here depends on how much you love your motorcycle. For my girls? Only the best will do. Bob L
I'll hang onto the old one-piece shaft, but the new parts (shaft + separate kicker arm) have arrived already. With new bushings and O-ring and kicker shaft, the cover should be oil tight. I guess I'll see.

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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#9

Post by Kuda » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:41 pm

Just for grins, after you get the bushings installed and *before* you put in the o-ring (yes they can be installed/uninstalled with the bushings in place), slide the old arm through the bushings (dry) and check for play. Depending on the quality of the bushings, sometimes they'll tighten up enough to make the original arm work. But you have to check it without the o-ring, it's much harder to tell with the o-ring in there. Speaking of o-rings: if you can find the thicker flat edged (square) o-ring, it lasts MUCH longer than the thinner round profile o-ring. And lastly, once you've got the bushings pressed in and temperature equalized, give 'em a little love tap with a flat punch/drift to see if they'll stay seated. Once the bore hole is wallered out enough, the bushings can walk out and 1) change the gear engagement depth (kicker slips), and/or 2) leak like hell when the o-ring isn't compressed as it should be. Just more useless ramblings...

-Kuda
'49 panchop

Mark44
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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#10

Post by Mark44 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:39 pm

Thanks to all of you. It's much appreciated!

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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#11

Post by BCOWANWHEELS » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:44 am

WELL CALLED S&S TO ORDER THERE KICKER ARM BUSHING AND SEAL.... THEY TOLD ME I,D HAVE TO BUY A COMPLETE COVER---- YEA RIGHT. SO I,VE ORDERED A STICK OF OIL IMPREGNATED BRONZE SO I CAN TURN ME OUT A "FEW" OF THESE SINCE S&S WONT SELL THEM ALSO MY BEARING SUPPLIER HAS ME SOME OF THE "SEALS" COMING TO MATCH S&S'S SEALS SINCE THEY WONT SELL THEM TOO..... THE KICKER COVER WILL HAVE TO BE MACHINED TO EXCEPT THE OUTSIDE SEAL JUST A BIT. SO IF ANYBODY WANTS TO UPGRADE THERE KICKER COVERS I,LL HAVE SOME EXTRAS SOON AND I,LL BE DOING A POST ON THE MACINEING THATS DONE TO THE KICKER COVER. NO MORE GAULDED OUTER BUSHINGS. I CAN MACHINE YOUR COVERS ALSO IF NEED BE. WORST THING A VENDER CAN DO IS TELL A PERSON THEY CANT BUY A PART........ ESPECIALLY A OLD MAN WHOS BEEN AROUND THE BLOCK QUITE A FEW TIMES.

Mark44
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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#12

Post by Mark44 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:13 am

Update...

The starter shaft bushings went in without too much trouble, using a threaded rod with two nuts and large washers (thanks, Cotten!). The bushings were way too tight on the starter shaft (JIMs), so I picked up a set of adjustable reamers from Harbor Freight, and reamed the bushings out in several stages, and now the starter shaft seems to fit just right. All I have left to do is put the starter gear on and then put the cover back on.

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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#13

Post by BCOWANWHEELS » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:03 am

JIM,S BUSHING ARE .03 SMALL AND HAVE TO BE FITTED ON THE I.D.

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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#14

Post by indianut » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:11 pm

BCOWANWHEELS wrote: SO I,VE ORDERED A STICK OF OIL IMPREGNATED BRONZE SO I CAN TURN ME OUT A "FEW" OF THESE SINCE S&S WONT SELL THEM ALSO MY BEARING SUPPLIER HAS ME SOME OF THE "SEALS" COMING TO MATCH S&S'S SEALS SINCE THEY WONT SELL THEM TOO.
What you want to use is #660 Bronze!

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Re: Kicker repair on my panhead

#15

Post by BCOWANWHEELS » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:49 pm

I PREFER OIL IMPREGNATED BRONZE. ITS WHAT ITS MADE FOR.

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