Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

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Zoomin
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Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#1

Post by Zoomin » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:27 pm

I have a complete jockey top for a 4 speed transmission that I’m trying to disassemble. It seems to have the gear shifter cam shaft seized into the shifter cam. I don’t think the thing has ever been apart in all of its years and who knows where it’s been sitting before I got it. I have the unit on the work bench and when you spin the shifter cam as it normally would during its shifting of the gears, the shaft turns along with the shifter cam and is actually turning in the transmission cover at the shafts ends. I managed to remove the lock screw that holds the shaft into the case t after much penetrating oil and some heat but no luck getting the shaft out from there. The shaft really seems to be stuck in there. Any suggestion on how I might remove the shaft out of the shifter cam and transmission top under these circumstances? I am aware of the method of using an old long stem intake or exhaust valve(which I don’t have) to catch on the grooved end of the shaft and “drifting” the shaft out and I was hoping to not have to drill a hole in the other end of the case and trying to punch the shaft out from that side, I was hoping to leave the case intact (it’s a really nice case) Any other homemade tool ideas or old tricks or suggestions regarding this job from any of you guys will be appreciated



Cotten
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Re: Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#2

Post by Cotten » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:01 pm

Zoomin!

Although I have welded up more forked "toes" for my slap-hammer than I can remember,
It often came down to either grabbing the shaft end in a vise to twist and pound the cover in the other direction (carefully!), or to flame-cut a section of the shaft away inside of the cam, so that a hammer could do the rest.

I realize that none of these alternatives are encouraging.

....Cotten

Bosheff
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Re: Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#3

Post by Bosheff » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:03 pm

Sounds like the shaft has welded itself to the shift drum, or vice versa. Heat the snot outta both points of contact on the drum and try workin it out. You may have to drill through the lid and drive it out. Also, you may have to address oversize shaft holes in the lid once you free the shaft from the drum....bosheff

Zoomin
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Re: Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#4

Post by Zoomin » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:53 pm

Bosheff wrote:Sounds like the shaft has welded itself to the shift drum, or vice versa. Heat the snot outta both points of contact on the drum and try workin it out. You may have to drill through the lid and drive it out. Also, you may have to address oversize shaft holes in the lid once you free the shaft from the drum....bosheff
I tried the Vise trick Cotten suggested
I tried the vise trick that Cotton suggested without any success. The vise just kept losing its grip on the tiny end of the shaft that sticks out. A slide hammer approach sounded interesting if I could come up with an end that would grip the shaft groove. I also thought about cutting the shaft like was suggested but was hoping there might be another way….. But say I get lucky and get the shaft out and the shaft holes are too big in the case, what is the solution for oversized shaft holes in the case? There doesn’t seem to be any wobble in the case holes. I hoping that this case has just been sitting for a long time it looks like a low mile unit; it’s just corroded hence my problem. Thanks guys for the response, I hav'nt given up yet!!

Kuda
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Re: Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#5

Post by Kuda » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:47 pm

Here's an easy one to try, and it worked for me in the same situation: lots of penitrating oil on the ends of the shaft, then gently tap the shaft further INTO the top. If you're lucky, you'll see a small line of corrosion/lip that was holding the shaft in place. Hit that with a flapper wheel/Dremel tool to knock off the ridges and clean it up. Then reverse the procedure. Again, if you're lucky, the little bit of corrosion/lip you've removed will allow the shaft to move out a bit more than before, revealing another lip on the other (blind) side. Repeat flapper wheel/Dremel proceedure. Another good soak in penatrating oil, and maybe some heat, and you *should* be able to get enough bite on the end in a vise to work it off (twisting and pulling is good for that.) Might not work, but it won't harm anything if it doesn't. Only other way I've seen it done was to use a carbide drill and tap a hole in the end, then use a slide hammer to pull it out. Worked, but it ended up putting a crack in the top which had to be welded up...

-Kuda
'49 panchop

Zoomin
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Re: Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#6

Post by Zoomin » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:01 pm

Just an update, I did finally get the shaft out. I had to go to the last resort and drilled a 5/32” hole in the case and got a long punch and punched the shaft out. I then tapped the hole and put a hex head set screw in the hole so it is flush with the case. Doesn’t look too bad but felt I had no other choice. Are these shafts still available from the Moco? If not how are the after markets? You guys had any experience with these shafts?

Bosheff
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Re: Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#7

Post by Bosheff » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:45 pm

Is the shaft in fact beyond service specs? How bout the holes in the lid?....bosheff

Zoomin
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Re: Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#8

Post by Zoomin » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:12 pm

Good question, I haven’t put it back together or checked closely these parts. Thankfully the holes in the case seem o.k. so I think if I put it back together now I think the shaft will stay put in the case and the drum will spin around the shaft like it’s supposed to. I don’t think this trans top had been used much or at all when I found it so I don’t think the case suffered any (thats why I hated to drill it) I think the shaft and the drum seized together from just sitting on a barn floor over the years or something. How would you describe "acceptable service specs" on the shaft?

panhead_kicker
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Re: Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#9

Post by panhead_kicker » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:14 am

Zoomin wrote:Just an update, I did finally get the shaft out. I had to go to the last resort and drilled a 5/32” hole in the case and got a long punch and punched the shaft out. I then tapped the hole and put a hex head set screw in the hole so it is flush with the case. Doesn’t look too bad but felt I had no other choice. Are these shafts still available from the Moco? If not how are the after markets? You guys had any experience with these shafts?
That's an obsolete part. Id clean the shaft up on a wire wheel. If it feels snug installed , and the seal slot is not pitted, it's straight, etc. Then use it. I had a thread on this part recently. It seems there may have been two different versions of this shaft. I don't know about aftermarket, but Jims makes this shaft. 34031-41

Zoomin
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Re: Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#10

Post by Zoomin » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:33 am

I put the top back together temporarily and all the components seem to work o.k. together. The shaft is snug in the case and doesn’t try to spin along with the drum any more. I noticed that the spring that’s located between the case and the half gear that is connected to the shifter arm is broken and also the round ball that holds tension on the shifter drum detents is pitted and rough and I’ll need the little seal at the one end of the shaft. So I’ll be trying to locate these parts at very least but I think the shaft is o.k. Things inside the case just got rusty and a little pitted from sitting in a swamp or something. The thing fought me every inch of the way of disassembly but all in all I’m happy with the part. Here’s a look at the set screw in the drilled hole I had to drill to get the shaft out.
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Bosheff
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Re: Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#11

Post by Bosheff » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:57 am

Replace the spring, clean up the ball as best you can, reassemble and run it. You'll be O.K....bosheff

Zoomin
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Re: Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#12

Post by Zoomin » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:39 pm

Do you guys recognize this Jockey Top in the first photo as an original Harley part? If so what’s its application? It appears to be the correct mid 1950 to 1964 die-cast type in its shape. Palmers book says on the inside of the top there should be raised casting numbers of 33-49 like in the third photo on a different top I have. The top in question has no markings on the inside but has the numbers 33-49 and EST on the outside rear edge of the top on the bolt holes flange.There are no date codes on the top in question; there are cast lines or flashing on the exterior of the top. The shifter drum has the number 2243-36 stamped on it which seems to be the correct Harley shifter drum for late 1940 to 1976 four speed handshift transmissions. I just didn’t know about the location of those numbers being on the outside along with the letters EST. I can’t seem to find any information on this style of top. Could this be a very late model Jockey Top from Harley ?
Num 1.jpg
Num 2.jpg
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Bosheff
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Re: Transmission jockey top shifter cam shaft

#13

Post by Bosheff » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:56 pm

Probably an aftermarket piece....bosheff

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