Inside the kicker

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64duo
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Posts: 125
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:07 am
Bikes: 2001 Road King w/sidecar
1947 Servi-car
Location: Redmond, OR

Inside the kicker

#1

Post by 64duo » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:14 pm

Description: On the starter gear is a spring that kinda sticks out from the gear, what purpose does it serve?

Post by 64duo on Jan 5, 2006, 2:54am

I am in the process of changing my kicker cover for a correct pig-nose cover and see an interesting thing. On the starter gear is a spring that kinda sticks out from the gear. I believe the old style throwout bearing goes over that, but what purpose does it serve or is there something missing and that spring shouldn't be sticking out? I can't find any reference to it in the parts manual. Any leads for me?

Image

Thanks 64duo

Post by pster on Jan 5, 2006, 3:54am

I think you mean the spring that pushes a 'ball bearing " like detent ,that locates and stops the throwout bearing inner race spinning.
Looks like the ball might be missing.
Jamie.
(Panster. not logged in)

Post by Jack Hester on Jan 5, 2006, 12:50pm

Panster is right. I've seen quite a few with the ball still intact, but completely flat. Whether ground down intentionally, or worn flat. And still no ill effect on operation of the throwout bearing in place. However, if the throwout seizes for any reason, that will make the cap you have pictured spin inside the bearing inner housing. The ball won't last long, that way. Check your throwout bearing for smooth operation.

Jack

Post by fourthgear on Jan 5, 2006, 4:13pm

64Duo
Kinda makes ya wonder where the ball went or do you know and have it in hand? I would replace the outer part of your kicker ratchet or if worn replace the whole thing. I would hope it didn't roll into the tranny via oil passage at bottom of case there.

Post by 64duo on Jan 6, 2006, 10:27pm
fourthgear wrote: 64Duo
Kinda makes ya wonder where the ball went or do you know and have it in hand?
What a great question. I fished for the ball in the drained oil bucket, no such find. It isn't still sitting there on the kicker side, and I am looking at the hole that flows into the tranny itself, uphill battle of sorts, that hole is not exactly on the same level, so a ball shouldn't just roll in there. I'm gonna try a flush of the tranny with desiel or something that'll stay fluid in the cold weather of the garage. I have had this cover off before and in fact replaced the throw-out bearing just never noticed if that ball was ever there. Hope not.
Jonathan

Post by 64duo on Jan 7, 2006, 12:49am
fourthgear wrote: 64Duo
Kinda makes ya wonder where the ball went or do you know and have it in hand?
Well this gets me to looking around at the kicker side, look at these interesting wear marks.

Image
Image

Could that little ball do that? Seems like there is only any motion in the kicker side when starting the bike. I can't envision the ball doing that. The release finger looks like contact with the throwout bearing doesn't it?

Post by Mbskeam on Jan 7, 2006, 3:18am

64DUO......
got these same wear points on my stuff also.
marks on the gear are from the kicker in action.
and you can guess that the finger got its marks from the throw out.
cant tell you about where your ball went, but when I have pulled the kicker off it seamed to keep most of the kicker gear wear junk on the kicker side.
magnet drain plugs are good to help trap junk also, and save it for you to look at, when doing a oil change.

mbskeam

Post by Cotten on Jan 7, 2006, 3:39am

Jonathan!

I cannot make out the concern on the throwout finger,
but the teeth marks on the kickgear pawl indicate that there is/was slop in the kickshaft bushings. ( The kickgear "walks up" upon the kickclutch gear as it tries to cam it out of engagement. )

....Cotten

Post by jarhead on Jan 7, 2006, 1:26pm

While we are inside the kicker, how tight should the starter clutch nut be tighten?Re: Inside the kicker
Post by fourthgear on Jan 9, 2006, 5:10pm

64Duo
That ball might (hope ) have fell out when removing the cover and might not have been noticed , could of sat in the cover some where until you laid it down (hopefully). the marks on your gear are somewhat normal ( I've seen them on just about everyone I looked at )unless of course it has an electric leg and not used much. Now your throw out bearing finger looks like its getting some wear, maybe because of that little ball is missing or maybe got cocked in there some how. I would give your throw bearing a good look to make sure it is working properly as has been said. I think that ball is there just to hold the bearing snugly in possition, but there could be other reasons that only the designer may know.

Post by fourthgear on Jan 9, 2006, 5:22pm

Jarhead
I believe the book says tighten securely and fold ear of washer to secure it , but there may be a torque spec on it some where , if I'm off the mark some one will speak up. I think there is a book on Ebay that you can look at a couple of pages and one I believe is torque specs. Someone here on this sight kinda puts it out I think , can't remember who , he might speak up and give you the web address to check it out.

Post by jarhead on Jan 10, 2006, 1:31am

Fourthgear, Put new gears in at the end of last summer. I wasn't sure if there was a torque spec or not, so did what you already stated in your last post. Seems to be holding up fine. Thanks.

Post by 64duo on Jan 30, 2006, 5:32am

Well, i'm having a problem. New starter gear, key, spring and starter clutch. When trying to reassemble, cannot get starter clutch to engage fully enuf. Suspected a little problem, so I removed all. Findings: starter gear bushing making contact with key causing a gouge in bushing and small dimple in brass. The key was being pushed back in groove on mainshaft into starter gear. I have now reassembled with old gear, old key (looser somewhat), new spring and new starter clutch. I still can't seem to get the starter clutch on far enough. There is some gap between the gear & the starter clutch that looks too loose, at least compared to where i started, (compare this pic to the first picture in this entire thread).
I have dropped the tranny into gear, but can't get enough umph to draw down starter clutch anymore without turning tranny. I am starting to worry the key is holding me up again. Whats the normal amount of mainshaft that should be protruding from the nut? Any thoughts on any of this?
Jonathan 64FLH

Post by kell on Jan 30, 2006, 5:30pm

You have to put a straightedge across the case and measure the height of the gear. There's a spec, which I don't remember but I know Clymer's has it, because that's what I went by. Been a couple of years ago.

Post by Mbskeam on Jan 31, 2006, 1:54am

Is your bushing to long, and you might check to make sure that your key is not to tall. to test this put on outer clutch part W/O key and see how far in it seats. if that ain't it , its time to start measuring old vs new parts.

mbskeam

Post by jarhead on Feb 1, 2006, 12:36pm

Don't go beyond a point where top of starter clutch is less than 5/8 in. above edge of gear box.

Post by 64duo on Feb 4, 2006, 10:36pm

Well I'm a slow learner. Slow but steady. The reason the starter clutch wouldn't sit in far enough to engage the starter gear correctly is the key was set too far back in the groove on the mainshaft toward the tranny and keeping the starter gear from coming forward enough because it was hitting the bushing of the gear. I looked at that and put it together & apart about 8 times trying to sort thru what was holding the two parts incorrectly. Just needed some additional stare and contemplation time. It's just these little things.... now on to the next.
Thanks all for the comments.
Jonathan 64FLH



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