Leaking transmission

Transmission, clutch, chains and belts
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03Roadking
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 4:17 pm

Leaking transmission

#1

Post by 03Roadking » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:03 am

I have been fighting this for months I thought it was the main seal behind the sprocket I replaced it four times and it still leaked I replaced the sleeve the cork and the seal, but the last time I took it apart I noticed that the nut that hold the sprocket on wasn't tight so I put all new parts in again and thought I torqued it down good after about three weeks it started to leak again I went down to the shop I deal with and explained this to them and they said you are going to have to replace the shaft the sprocket bolts to. So tonight I started taking it apart and low and behold the damn sprocket nut was loose again, I mean you could almost take it off with your fingers I am putting the locking piece behind the nut I think that is the only thing that is keeping it from just spinning off
Am I just not tightening it enough or am I missing something ??? I know a lot of you do your own tranny work I thought maybe someone has run into this before



Panacea
Posts: 1827
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Bikes: 64FL 99FLHR 01FXSTD
Location: Mpls. MN.

Re: Question about transmission

#2

Post by Panacea » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:13 pm

03,are you using the special extra deep socket? It's impossible to get120 ftlbs with a channellock. My 4 speed leaked after puting a couple new seals in too, then I discovered there was no endplay in the main drive gear, so if I tightened it up, it put a bind on the bearings, so I broke down and took It to a machinist that specialized in old harleys. There also were other issues he took care of,with a complete re-build. Good luck...Mike W

03Roadking
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 4:17 pm

Re: Question about transmission

#3

Post by 03Roadking » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:36 pm

After I wrote the first post I went out and pulled the trans I am going to take it to the shop to let Neal look at it He's been riding old iron for over forty years. His shop is the old style HD shop, parts all over the place, hanging every where I will post what he says

kell
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:58 am

Re: Question about transmission

#4

Post by kell » Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:05 pm

I also have a leaking transmission. Looking forward to hear what you have to say.

mbskeam
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Re: Question about transmission

#5

Post by mbskeam » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:05 pm

it may be that your nut is worn in the threads. new nuts are cheap and you most likely could feel the slop in it, red lock tight is also a option

and on the leak ....
is your seal .050 below the case surface? if its not set so that the lip of the seal is below the notch in the hat that holds the little 90deg keeper that locks 4th gear to the hat, so it don't spin.
it will leak from there also if the seal lip is above the notch
is the seal surface on the hat good, no groove etc.....
bushing in 4th gear is it loose on the main shaft
is the back side of the sprocket smooth, no big Mach marks(thanks Jack)

mbskeam

RussW
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:49 am
Bikes: 1961 FL
2007 Kaw. Vulcan 2000
Location: Western Mass

Re: Question about transmission

#6

Post by RussW » Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:29 am

One way to keep the nut from backing off (aside from red locktite) are the PBI sprockets with the lock collar. Seems foolproof, I just put one on a few hundred miles ago. The surface of the sprocket is rather rough, I smoothed mine with some sandpaper before installing to get a better seal.

03Roadking
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 4:17 pm

Re: Question about transmission

#7

Post by 03Roadking » Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:42 am

Mbskeam
the nut is new and the hat is also I replaced the nut twice and Neal set the seal for me to make sure. He said I just wasn't torquing it right so he did it
I put the trans back in and ran it for a few miles and sure enough it started leaking again I started to take it apart again when I pulled the plates out, the phone rang and as I was talking on the phone I was spinning the clutch and I noticed that the basket was rocking up and down as I spun it When I turn it, it rocks up at the same point each time so I have a bent main shaft or a bent what? it would account for the nut backing off and the leak

mbskeam
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Re: Question about transmission

#8

Post by mbskeam » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:00 am

get a dial indicator and see whats up. check it on the hub, then on the main shaft. you will know right away if its bent.

mbskeam

Billy
Posts: 719
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:57 am

Re: Question about transmission

#9

Post by Billy » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:08 am

If the main shaft checks out good w/dial indicator,
& if yer hub runs 'true' also.(as Mbskeam stated)
Then...
Check your hub friction lining, I have had one w/bad rust behind the fricton liner & rust 'clump' pushed the liner out a bit, which made the shell run out of whack.

easy fix after finding it !!!

Jack_Hester
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Re: Question about transmission

#10

Post by Jack_Hester » Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:17 pm

RW2 -

The one issue with that sprocket is the matte, or sandblasted finish (other than that, the locking ring is great). That is, it is a problem where it makes contact with the seal ring. This surface must be smooth, for a good metal-to-metal contact. Part of the total sealing. In the future, when I get these along with a build job (as some customers send), I will chuck them up in the lathe and shave a smooth contact point for the seal ring to contact. The only area that has not been addressed by the aftermarket designers is a way to seal the area where the seal ring fits to the final drive gear. There should be an o-ring or some type of seal that closes this gap. Your sprocket fit in the grooves on the clutch gear is the only thing left to stop the flow of lube from the tranny, which is doesn't.
As a rule, I will run the trans lube a bit low, to prevent it from getting this high on the final drive gear. Using the kickstarter cover as a guide, I do the following: if it is one of the older OEM covers, I run the level about an 1/8" lower than the filler hole threads (bike held level); if it is a later OEM cover, or one of the many aftermarket that are made like them, I run the level a good 1/4" below the filler hole. You will have plenty of lube to be picked up by the gears, at all times. If you usage is such that you are planning a long distance trip of several thousand miles, fill it to the book level. The extra oil is good for heat dissipation.

Note: I am speaking of 4-speeds, only. I don't get my hands on 5-speeds or greater.

Jack

kell
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:58 am

Re: Question about transmission

#11

Post by kell » Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:18 pm

''Mbskeam wrote: bushing in 4th gear is it loose on the main shaft''
I don't want to hijack the thread, but
I think this may be the problem on mine. What options are there for repairing when the bushing in the main gear has worn?
Kell

Panacea
Posts: 1827
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 1:00 am
Bikes: 64FL 99FLHR 01FXSTD
Location: Mpls. MN.

Re: Question about transmission

#12

Post by Panacea » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:49 am

Kell, mine was also worn, possibly from running the back chain too tight, part of the re-build was to press in a new andrews bushing along with extensive case repair and all new roller bearings. As long as I had it all apart I figured this was the time to cover all the bases. good luck with yours, the guys here have lots of good advice, I've learned a lot on this site..MW,panacea

Billy
Posts: 719
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:57 am

Re: Question about transmission

#13

Post by Billy » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:59 am

The locking ring is what evo's are using from moco.
Just holding a pulley instead of a gear...

fourthgear
Posts: 1365
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:12 pm
Location: north florida

Re: Question about transmission

#14

Post by fourthgear » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:13 pm

I've got about five hundred miles on my tranny rebuild and no leaks yet , of course its all new but the cases. The late model main drive gears for four speed trannys have a seal for the main shaft at the end of them to stop leaking from the main shaft bushing on the main drive gear. There are duo seal sprocket nuts available that help seal also . Use the newer double lip main seal for better sealing and if you have over spec play in any of the bearings or bushings ,nothing will keep the oil in, it will just wear the seals out prematurely.
One other thing , when tightening the sprocket nut make sure the lock tab does not move because it will flatten or shear that alignment tab .

03Roadking
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 4:17 pm

Re: Question about transmission

#15

Post by 03Roadking » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:56 pm

Thank you for the input I guess it will come in handy after I rebuild the trans in the new case I am going to start looking for I noticed that the inside of the primary had a lot of rubber from the belt, I thought I had set that up dead on, So when I put it back in Saturday I made sure it was right, but when I pulled the cover Sunday there was more rubber. I decided to pull the trans and check it out real close I found another problem, it seems the person before me ground off the sliders on the clutch side of the trans so even when I get it set, As soon as I tighten it up, it cocks a little every time. With the one screw adjuster being on the right side it has so much play in it that I can't hold it and tighten it without moving it any suggestions on this. My guy here said two roads, tear it down have the case welded and machined back to spec then address the other problem or buy a rebuild-able trans with a good case and make one good one and then repair the old case as a spare.

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