Linkert Floats

Linkert related issues
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Hauula Pan
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Linkert Floats

#1

Post by Hauula Pan » Sat May 25, 2013 6:25 pm

I was reading an earlier post from 62rider where several responses talked about the various floats available for the Linkert M74B. I've never used anything accept the brass or cork. I have never tried any of the foam & have always been leery of them. There were several responses about today's gas causing them to swell. I am going back to my old Linkert after running a few different carbs over the past years & am now wondering how the cork will hold up to today's gas? Also I've not heard of the rubber ducky, are they better than brass or cork? & if so where do you get them? Appreciate any input on this.



Cotten
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Re: Linkert Floats

#2

Post by Cotten » Sat May 25, 2013 7:09 pm

Hauula Pan!

You are right, fuel is the problem.

Our Linkerts never came with a brass float. Brass is too heavy for the design, as the bowl would have to be much larger.

Cork would be great if it could be coated effectively.
Dipping it in Red-Cote might work, but you will once again be adding weight, meaning you will be takeing the bowl off and on to trial and error the height adjustment. So stock up extra gaskets...

Linkert switched sometime before 1957 to black foam floats. These were the "Armstrongs" so famous for swelling to where they cannot be removed from the bowl.

Various other attempts at foam floats, from red to yellow to almost white, also suffered from modern fuels. One black one that has hit the market lately is as heavy as brass!

The original Armstrong compound has been improved many times over the last half a century, of course. And the Rubber Ducky is a wonderfully-molded example of an obsolete off-patent formula. V-TWIN offers one that is almost identical but for the text on the bottom.
Both are lightweight, but the RD is quite a bit more resistant to swelling than the V-TWIN.

The latest, most successfully fuel-proof form of this foam only became available in June of '08, and because of the patent holder's royalty requirements, only in machined form for vintage American motorcycle carburetors.

(As I have posted previously, Liberty replaces any early production DURABLE float that shows swelling, with one cut from the exclusive new formula, free of charge. It need only be returned to me for verification.)

....Cotten

George Greer
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Re: Linkert Floats

#3

Post by George Greer » Sat May 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Shameless plug for Cotten :D

I had tried various floats on my WLA....

The brass one that I had was really heavy, and it did NOT float.

Switched to one of Cotten's floats, and numerous fuel issues were fixed with this ONE part.

Get one, you will not be disassapointed!

I have one on the M-74 that I am playing with for my WL-KH project, (will be playing with different venturi's) and I will be using one on the M-74 for my 58FL retirement toy.

George

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Re: Linkert Floats

#4

Post by Mr.Big » Sun May 26, 2013 12:03 am

I've always used the Starklite Nitrophyl floats with no issues. 29 bucks and include the float lever. I just assumed all this time that the Starklite, Rubber Ducky and the Durable were all from the same material.

Cotten, is the Nitrophyl you use from this outfit? Is it the Nitrophyl-M? Or do you cut yours from some other material?

http://www.rogerscorp.com/ec/nitrophyl.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Linkert Floats

#5

Post by Cotten » Sun May 26, 2013 1:58 am

Mr. Big!

Yes, I suspect the "M" means it is the thirteenth variation of the formula, as Bruce A., who molds the RDs, told me the material originated as ebonite, which is perhaps the very first true plastic, dating back to the American Civil War. Bowling balls and Ace combs are examples.

Rogers Corp. informed me that they wanted $10G up front just for the rights to mold it.

The Starklite float certainly smells like a nitrophyll straight out of the box!
But it weighs the same as a Delhi brass float, three times heavier than the originals.
In fact, it is exactly the same size and shape.

The effect upon its buoyancy is shown here, as several varieties of "nitrophyll" floats are compared in fuel:
JAR09A.jpg
And like all obsolete formulae, it is subject to swelling:
BLAKQUAK.jpg
How's your fuel mileage?

....Cotten
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Hauula Pan
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Re: Linkert Floats

#6

Post by Hauula Pan » Sun May 26, 2013 6:46 am

Going through my box of Linkert parts I have one old brass float, and two cork floats one of which has never been used. Both of the cork floats have a shiny clear coating although the used one has spots where it appears to either be extremely thin or just not there. Anyway as I do not want to have problems I'm looking for the most reliable float I can get. From the discussions above as well as some earlier posts I take it that Mr. Cotton makes or used to make very good reliable floats. I see the name Liberty and guess there is a connection. So what I need to know is, How to get one and how much do they cost?

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Re: Linkert Floats

#7

Post by Cotten » Sun May 26, 2013 1:22 pm

Haaula Pan!

Just email me direct at liberty@npoint.net.

It will require one of the tophat-shaped pivotnuts and screws that hold the cork floats to the lever.
(I can supply one if needed.)
PIVOTNUT.jpg
One problem with pre-coated corks is that installation of the pivotnut often cracks the sealer, allowing the cork to eventually "log", or soak up fuel and become heavier.
Care must be taken with installation into any float, using a twisting motion.
Although there is variation in vintage pivotnuts, a very snug fit within the float's hole is desireable to retain it. It's length should be just shy of the float's thickness, so that the lever will compress it gently as the screw bottoms it against the top of the pivotnut.
And as stated in the service manuals, a float must never be grasped when adjusting the height: It will snap like a biscuit.

L&L applied a dab of adhesive to further secure the lever to the float.
Although I use an isocyanate urethane, an off-the-shelf product that survives my testing is Pliobond contact cement.

Looking forward to it,

....Cotten
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Re: Linkert Floats

#8

Post by 58flh » Sun May 26, 2013 2:17 pm

Hulapan!---that pic. that cotton showed of the swelling black one in the bowl!---is exactly what happened to a cork one I had when I ran a Linkert ,many moons ago!--It did have some sort of coating on it!--& if you didnt know any better you would think it was shellac!--as it looked shiny & clean or clear for a better term!--I ran it with that float & the first 2-weeks I had no problems!--then I found myself constantly ADJ. the float ALOT!--& thats when I modified my Bendix--for use with the FLH cam. So im saying this had to be 13+yrs. ago!,--I have seen brass ones to that always seemed to give trouble when guys would ride-up to my shop & say take it for a ride & tell me what you think!--It was mostly the FLOATS all the time!--other prob. included vac-leaks & loose butterfly bushings,to name a few!---I had also tried smaller brassfloats from diff. carbs. & it wouldnt work correctly--Either to much solder for the connect or they would sink!--probably from my bad sodering skills at that time :lol: --just my 2 on it!---RICHIE 8)

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Re: Linkert Floats

#9

Post by Cotten » Sun May 26, 2013 2:49 pm

Richie!

I have never encountered a swollen cork, but dozens that looked like raisins.
One historical source called the coating collodion. Perhaps he meant celluloid, if that is any different.
Here's an NOS example after just a few days in modern fuel:
FLOTSEAL.jpg
Here's one where the coating is intact, but fuel is trapped within. This is the hazard of any sealed float:
FLOTSOAK.jpg
A modern sealer can even decompose to glue the float to the bowl:
FLOTCOAT.jpg
Here's POR15:
PORFAIL.jpg
Attempting to coat NOS floats was a very expensive lesson.

...Cotten
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Last edited by Cotten on Sun May 26, 2013 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mr.Big
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Re: Linkert Floats

#10

Post by Mr.Big » Sun May 26, 2013 3:01 pm

Cotten!

What should be the ideal weight be for a float? And what do your's weigh? I dont' have a Starklite on hand (their website goes into great detail describing their use of Nitrophyl) to compare with today but a brass float I have weighs just under 2 grams. As I recall, the Starklite weighs just a smidge less than that.

Also, I'm assuming that your product is made of some proprietary material of your design?

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Re: Linkert Floats

#11

Post by 58flh » Sun May 26, 2013 3:05 pm

Glad you showed me that Cotton.---obviously the 1-I had was of a different matieral!, since it swelled!,& it stayed larger when it dried-up!,-just a smife larger then if it were new!--Any Ifea what it could have been?----thanks---Richie

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Re: Linkert Floats

#12

Post by Cotten » Sun May 26, 2013 3:26 pm

Mr. Big!

Please check your scale; India-made brasses averaged 9 grams, and Kokesh "American-made" brasses were 12 grams.

Original corks and Armstrongs were both about 3 grams.

Because the dense molded skin is machined away, and the new material has larger closed cells, the float would be over-buoyant.
So my DURABLEs are proportionately smaller, and lighter.

This allows more reserve within the bowl, and less inertia to wear the delicate floatlever fingers the way brasses do:
FNGRWER.jpg
And yes, the exact proportion is proprietary, as determining the density of seven different models of floats took a little R&D:
VOLTST5.jpg
Beware of machined floats on the market that did not do their homework:
Compflot.JPG
And the development of Starklite's float is obvious:
ANCHORZ.jpg
QUAKBALC.jpg
They have the best levers though!
(Wow! The floats with lever are $30, but the lever alone is $20. It doesn't sound like they paid Rogers' royalty...)

And Richie!
I don't know what it was, but I would love to have had it for study.

....Cotten
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Re: Linkert Floats

#13

Post by Mr.Big » Sun May 26, 2013 3:57 pm

Yes, my scale is a POS! Although your scale appears to be dumpster retrieved? :wink:

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Re: Linkert Floats

#14

Post by Cotten » Sun May 26, 2013 4:47 pm

Mr.Big wrote:Yes, my scale is a POS! Although your scale appears to be dumpster retrieved? :wink:
Mr. Big!

I call it "collecting".
QALCNTRL.jpg
....Cotten
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Re: Linkert Floats

#15

Post by Mr.Big » Mon May 27, 2013 12:46 am

Dang, that thing looks like a refugee from a "Lost in Space" episode! :P

Ok, back to fun with floats. I flipped on the Bat Signal and Commissioner Gordon aka "The ShopSlut" responded with the following weights using a triple beam scale. Not sure why he's got one of those things layin' around but I'm sure it got more use back in the day..... :wink:

Anyhoo, here is the report from the department of weights and measures (no float lever attached)

Rubber Ducky - 4 grams
Starklite - 7 grams
Durable - 3 grams
Brass - 6 grams
Cork - 2 grams
Armstrong - 5.5 grams

I think the Starklite and the Brass are the only ones that have an insert for a screw to hold the lever while the others use the long screw and a nut so I guess total weight would be a bit different.

Interesting stuff I guess but I'm curious now as to how much the weight of the float affects the operation of the carb. Does a heavier float not respond fast enough? Or would one too light bounce around too much and be inconsistent?

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