Circut Breaker Single Point

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Mickey Yak
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Circut Breaker Single Point

#1

Post by Mickey Yak » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:19 am

Gents

Having a little problem with the old girl and need some experience. On my 50 Pan Circuit Breaker I can wiggle part #10, the base that can be rotated to retard or advance the timing. The points open and close a little with the movement which as we all know can throw the timing off. Is there a bearing that the point’s base #10rotate on? Do I have to pull the head to fix the problem or can the base retainer #20 be removed and Part 10 lifted off?

Thanks
Mickey Yak
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john HD
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Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#2

Post by john HD » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:04 am

mickey,

you have a common problem. part 2 is not clipped into part 20 properly.

if part 10 is rocking around make sure the dimples in part 20 are engaging the bail part number 2

part 20 should act like a spring and keep the entire assembly tight. the ends of part 2 go through part 10 and under part 20.

make sense?

also, spraying something like WD 40 or some such on the bottom of the timer will help it rotate smoothly.

try that and report back!

john

VT

Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#3

Post by VT » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:17 am

The spring has to be made of actual "spring steel". Some early repop springs were regular metal and they wouldn't keep the base afloat. "Floating" allows the motor to still be grounded even while the timer is being turned. Neat.
If the points move some, it might be the upper and lower bearings in the housing. Worn bushings allow the shaft to drift and it's enough to make it impossible to static time (with a single light bulb).
The bushings need to be line reamed. No, I don't know the procedure for removing the bushings and installing new ones and/or the reamer # it takes to do the job.
But, if you do, then take some pics and take us through it.

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Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#4

Post by Cotten » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:49 am

Even OEM springs often need to be bent to apply more tension.

....Cotten

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Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#5

Post by fourthgear » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:08 am

Or it could be worn out where # 10 & 22 meet for adv./retard pivoting . Mine was like that ,worn egg shaped, some times she would be on the money and start & most times she would be out of time and kick forever and not start . I could set the timing & move it from retarded to advanced & it would be out of time . I tried to tighten it up ( and I had a good & tight # 2 ) a couple of ways, but it would only last for a little while . I solved the problem by getting an auto adv. distributor (circuit breaker )Problem solved ,no more kicking for ever (some times ) fired up on comand.
You could probably take it to some one who has a machine shop & have it bushing put between there or have it tig welded & re-machined or some thing like that. I went the easy route , I'm getting old .I put a Mallory on soon after and have never looked back . I still have the A.M. auto adv. unit.

You should be able to remove every thing but the # 22 base , some times that too with out removing the head ,if you turn it right.

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Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#6

Post by mbskeam » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:30 am

it can all be pulled with out removing the head.
I just rebuilt mine, it had .004 side play and .013 end....
use a 1/2 tap to go into the bushing then stick a rod into the base, and push out the old bushing, repeat for the other end.
if you get OEM bushings they should be the right size when you press them into the base, they may seam a bit loose when not pressed, but will shrink up when put into the base, set the end play with the correct shim, measure this before you disassemble, got mine to .001 end play and no looseness in the bushing to shaft fit,
I did not have to line ream this, this was on mine, can't say about others
I have also bent the clip spring for more pressure,
if you think you have a bad ground then try a separate ground wire to see if this helps...

VT

Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#7

Post by VT » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:06 am

use a 1/2 tap to go into the bushing then stick a rod into the base, and push out the old bushing, repeat for the other end.
Are there any "stops" within the housing? How do you know when the bushings are seated?

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Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#8

Post by mbskeam » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:31 am

yes, there are shoulders that the bushings seat upon.

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Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#9

Post by FlatHeadSix » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:22 pm

Micky
Putting new bushings in the base will only tighten up the shaft, it won't do anything for the problem you originally had. There are no replaceable parts which will tighten the rotating stator plate on the base. If the spring clip is installed correctly and is still springy enough to keep tension against the bottom of the assembly you should be good unless it is seriously worn or egg shaped. The spark adjuster cable will also provide additional stability if it is installed correctly and you have the spark advance pulled all the way to full advance against its stop, it sort of locks the whole thing in place.

As stated above, the spring clip also insures that the points are grounded to the engine case. Whenever I start any of my bikes I always run the spark advance up and down a few times to sort of "wipe" the surface between the spring clip and the timer base to make sure I have a good ground, just an old habit or a little voodoo or something, but I always do it.

a picture is worth a thousand words, and its much easier to see the assembly like this instead of standing on your head and trying to look under the timer when its mounted on the bike. Try reinstalling the spring clip first and see if it doesn't improve things.

mike
Attachments
Timer1.jpg
flathead circuit breaker, exactly the same as a pan but shorter stem
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Timer2.jpg
circuit breaker assembly
Timer2.jpg (81.14 KiB) Viewed 2710 times

VT

Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#10

Post by VT » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:25 pm

On my 50 Pan Circuit Breaker I can wiggle part #10
If the shaft bushings are worn past spec run-out, you should be able to pinch the lobe end of the shaft and move it back and forth. Most of us can "feel" 0.001" of run-out, and what your trying to feel is more like .002 - .003" of shake, so it should be noticeable if your bushings are shot.
One more item to look at is #17, that pesky (32593-47) adjusting screw. It has a narrow "T" shape head that gets "grooved" sliding back and forth in the base slot. Pretty soon, (after about 30 or 40 yrs. of use), the "T" head will begin jamming in the base slot. Get a new adjusting screw and a new life for your timer. I think there's a new adjusting screw plate with the kit too.
if you get OEM bushings they should be the right size when you press them into the base, they may seam a bit loose when not pressed, but will shrink up when put into the base, set the end play with the correct shim, measure this before you disassemble, got mine to .001 end play and no looseness in the bushing to shaft fit,
That's pretty good, the best I could get for end-play was .004" :evil: You only have about 5 shims in a shim kit......how'd you get .001" :?: Made yer own shim :?:
Now that you know how to rebuild the timer Mickey, you ought to do it. There's nothing like a smooth action timer with a handlebar control. You can make the motor slow down a little and then speed back up to normal idle.
It drives women crazy. "Oh how'd you do that?" How can you control the idle of the motor when you have you hand on the handlebar, etc., etc." :?: :?

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Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#11

Post by mbskeam » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:23 am

There are no replaceable parts which will tighten the rotating stator plate on the base
if you take a socket that fits about half way down onto the hub of the base, support the other side of the base, and give it smack or two,this will tighten the ID of the base hole up.
I did this to mine a few years back and it worked pretty good to shrink up the hole so that it lost all the wobble and looseness.....

how'd you get .001" :?: Made yer own shim
mcmastercar has shims that go up in steps of .002

I get these where I work....

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Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#12

Post by FlatHeadSix » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:01 am

Mike,
I've used the socket trick myself, and it works.

If you look at the first picture I posted above you can see that the stator (the "cup") is a larger diameter at the bottom. The ridge where the stator necks down to the smaller diameter seats against the top of the base, the spring clip should pull it tightly against this surface for the full circumference. If the 2 surfaces mate well, and both pieces are concentric, this should prevent ANY rocking motion when everything is assembled correctly.

I think I posted it in a different thread a while ago, you can run it with the dust cover off but the wire bale has to stay on it, it is a critical part of the chinese puzzle because it also holds the spring clip against the bottom of the unit. If it seems sloppy when you first install it you have to remember that putting the dust cover on and snapping the bale wire onto the cover will pull the whole assembly more tightly together and give you additional pressure against that spring clip. Its a "system" and all the pieces work together, or it won't work.

mike

Mickey Yak
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Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#13

Post by Mickey Yak » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:29 pm

Gents
Thank you for all the great tips. The bail was not is the springclip securley. I will however keep these post as if ever I pull the distribuator it is rebuild time. I picked up the bushings at the Eustis meet of the AMCA.
Thanks All
Mike

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Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#14

Post by john HD » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:41 pm

and does it run better now?

john

Mickey Yak
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Re: Circut Breaker Single Point

#15

Post by Mickey Yak » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:32 pm

Gents
I installed a Quickstart2000 electronic ignition and the Pan runs great and starts easer too. Ed the owner and manfacturer is a pleasure to do business with. Warranteed for life!
Now I have to find the sweet spot for the Andrwes A grind cam. Any suggestions?
Thanks For all your help
Mickey Yak
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