Circuit breaker issues

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concrete guy
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Circuit breaker issues

#1

Post by concrete guy » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:35 am

Here's a little history that lead me to this.My bike was running very well but I knew it was time to rebuild my Super B on my '56. I did a pressure test on the intake system before installing the B and all looks good. Fired the bike up and it now idles fast like there is an intake leak. I was scratching my head and got to thinking that the timing might be way off by the previous owner.

I took the front cylinder to TDC on the compression stroke and aligned the fiber follower with the mark on the rotor. I then hooked up a test light to see when the circuit breaks. It says in the manual that when in the fully advanced position that the instant that you start retarding the circuit breaker that the test light comes on. Well, here where my problem is. I can retard the timer quite a ways before the test light comes on and there is no more adjustment left on the ciruit breaker base to turn it more so the light comes on instantly when retarding the timer.

Here I think I am moving one step forward to improving my Pan and now it is two steps backwards! Before the carb work she was a easy starting bike now she is more of a challenge.



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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#2

Post by panhead_kicker » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:26 am

Concrete guy,
When you start out adjusting the breaker, you're supposed to line up the rear edge of the slide strip that moves with the stud even with the small stamped line or notch on the outside of the timer body, just above the strip, as a starting point.
In this picture, you can see that the rear of my strip is ahead of the notch in the body by about 1/4 in. yeah, its a blur...
breaker 002.jpg
breaker 002.jpg (180.47 KiB) Viewed 3457 times

Cotten
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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#3

Post by Cotten » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:52 am

CC!
Whoa!
Back up!
The motor is not timed at Top Dead Center.

Did you really mean that you had the line in the hole?
On the front cylinder compression stroke?

.....Cotten

concrete guy
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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#4

Post by concrete guy » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:10 am

LOL! Well maybe that's my problem! I thought that the advanced timing was created by the circuit breaker. So, when you take your front piston to top dead center, what mark should you see in your timing window? My wheel looks like a drilled hole.

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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#5

Post by awander » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:22 am

The line that you will see in the timing hole is BEFORE TDC. If you are timing the engine to fire with the piston at TDC (with the timer fully advanced) then you are setting the timing about 35 degrees AFTER it needs to be set.

The spec is 34-38 degrees BTDC, or 7/16" before the piston is all the way up it's stroke.

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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#6

Post by RUBONE » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:00 am

Concrete Guy,
When you see the dot in the hole it is Top Dead Center. Rotate your engine BACKWARDS until the LINE appears in the hole. That line is the TIMING mark. rotating backwards takes all the gear lash out of the system so you will get your most accurate static timing. Now, with the line in the hole, use your light to set the points to just break at Full Advance (Rotated all the way counterclockwise). Your points gap was set correctly before you started Right? That is it. Make sure the stud is tight on the circuit breaker and that your retard cable is correctly attached or whatever means you use to keep the cicuit breaker in place. Always run it all the way advanced, retard it to start. If you actually have a hand control (No cable in your picture!) you can slightly retard for better power under extreme conditions, but if you don't full advance is the way to go.
Robbie

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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#7

Post by NightShift » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:03 pm

BACKWARDS? ! ? !

I gotta respectfully disagree with great gusto!
That makes a lash problem! Teeth gotta be on teeth right where it runs.

Even if they aint worn.

The rest sounds good, except how do you know if the front cylinder is sucking or squeezing? Other than if your on the exhaust stroke, it looks like got the timer in backwards.

Other than that, retarding for hills is greatly over-rated. Hard on shiney pipes too.

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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#8

Post by NightShift » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:04 pm

How do I kill double messages?

So let me add that a strobe is the final word.
Don't even have to rev it with a manual advance.

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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#9

Post by RUBONE » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:29 pm

Night shift is absolutely right, what I should have said is roll it backwards just past the hole and then Slowly roll it back forward to get the mark where you want it. My bad (although it would only amount to about one degree which would be corrected once the strobe goes on!).
Robbie

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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#10

Post by doug_heisel » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:40 pm

I didn't realize there were two marks on the flywheel. When I assembled the gears in my motor (I think) I lined the dot up to the timing hole before putting the gears in. I guess, this mean I have to pull it all apart before finishing the motor. Right? D*mn it. Oh well It'll give me something to do while my carb is being jetted. :)

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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#11

Post by RUBONE » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:25 pm

Doug,
If all the timing marks lined up when you put it together you are OK. The pinion gear only goes on one way. All the other gears drive off of it, so if the marks are lined up it is right. Read your SM as it will cover that assembly for you. You do need to line up the timing mark to install the circuit breaker and it does need to be on front cylinder compression stroke.
Robbie

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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#12

Post by doug_heisel » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:58 am

Great thanks, Thats one of my next steps. Thats why I come here you guys really know the ins and outs of these bikes.

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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#13

Post by rigidpanman » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:33 pm

i think i may be a bit confused here.i just had my top end rebuilt and i run a mag,i left the mag base in when i took the heads off and reinstalled the mag head when i put it back together,anywho,the bike wouldnt start with the mag so i took it off and put my cb back on.my service manual seems to tell me to put the line just barely in the hole(on compression stroke)and at full advance the little line on the points lobe should be on the fiber block of the points.the bike sputters but wont start.i advanced the timing on the cb a bit now the bike puffs and smokes back thru the carb.any ideas?do i need more advance or should i retard the cb?thanks

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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#14

Post by Cotten » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:58 pm

Rigidpanman!

Static timing tends to produce a slightly retarded spark, so the Service Manual diagram shows the line be slightly to the rear of the hole. ("barely in the hole" sounds like a Clymerism.)
When fine-tuned with a strobe, it should be in the middle, unless pinging from poor fuel is a problem. Then slightly to the front will retard it a few degrees.

Beyond these "fudges" I can only advise against any arbitrary tossing of the circuitbreaker head around.

The line on the points cam is often not exactly at the firing point of the front cylinder; It is only a reference to note the narrow lobe as opposed to the wide rear cylinder lobe. Once the hardware is installed, ignore it.

Please let me ask two questions:
How did you determine that it was on the compression stroke, and as always: Did you pressuretest the manifold after the top end was reassembled?

...Cotten

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Re: Circuit breaker issues

#15

Post by rigidpanman » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:03 pm

cotten,i determined the comp stroke by the downstroke of the front intake pushrod,then i rotated the engine to find the line on the flywheel.i must admit as far as the sealing is concerned,i am not too sure,however i have considered that and just ordered the band style conversion kit sold by j&p.i suspect that the intake is not sealing properly,because i had one hell of a time getting the rear head clamp around the s&s intake that i have.so im going to try the band setup and see how well that seals.ill let ya`ll know how that turns out later in the week.i think your question confirmed my suspicions on the intake.thanks

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