need help, cant set timing on pan...

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vitza
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need help, cant set timing on pan...

#1

Post by vitza » Wed May 25, 2011 7:17 pm

hey guys! so ive probably read every post in the knowledge base regarding every topic, love the wealth of knowledge here... so problem i have is i cant figure out how to time my bike... its got S&S generator cases and STD heads, the timer appears to be an S&S timer but im not sure as there arent any identification marks on it.

so here are the issues im having,
- i have no idea what kind of flywheels are in the bike so i dont know what mark to set it at, the order of marks are a sideways 8, dot, and vertical line. (i'll post the pictures in order)...
- the second thing is i understand i have to open the timer weights to full advanced and hold them while i move the points plate to the correct location (?) but i dont know how i can access the weights w/ this timer (i'll attach pictures of it)...
- and finally, how do i go about timing it with a timing light, how many degree's should i set it at and what mark should i look for in the hole w/ the strobe

thank you so much guys, sorry if this was repetitive but i just couldnt find the answers anywhere

marks in correct order
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timer
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vitza
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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#2

Post by vitza » Wed May 25, 2011 7:18 pm

oh and also i forgot, what plugs would you guys recommend, it appears that the rn12yc/bp5es might have too long of a thread? the engine had these splitfires(one spare pair and one pair in the engine), what do you guys recommend? i live in los angeles so it gets pretty warm, the bike is a 88" w/ stroker plates and im planning on throwing the quickstart ignition in soon
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jdpan
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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#3

Post by jdpan » Wed May 25, 2011 11:57 pm

The bolt head on top of the timer shaft is unusual to me and I believe it to be covering the timing mark. Locate the mark and use the virtical line on the flywheel to set your timing as per the stock service manual. As for plugs, Autolite would be a good place to start, definitely wouldn't use the splitfires..
Last edited by jdpan on Thu May 26, 2011 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#4

Post by RUBONE » Thu May 26, 2011 12:01 am

Vitza,
Relax, it is all very straightforward. The line is the advance mark, the dot most likely the TDC mark. To get close you can use the line for everything. When it is in the middle of the hole, the narrow lobe of the points cam should be close to the fiber on the points. To advance your timer all you need to do is rotate the cam. No need to access the weights, the cam and weights are connected together. You can use anything that will work to rotate the cam. I use a pair of old pliers that I ground a large part of the center out of so that the end of the pliers are like tongs that clear the screw head on the timer but can grip the cam. With timing mark centered, the narrow lobe approaching the points, if you rotate the points cam (it will only go one direction from a stopped position) the points should just begin to open at full advance (fully rotated). Make sure your points are gapped correctly before you start all this or you are wasting your time. You can tell when the points break by several methods. A very basic one is with a cigarette paper in the closed points when the unit is fully advanced you should just be able to slide it out. At that point the timing is close enough to start.
When running and using a timing light you are looking for the line marking in the center of the hole at approx. 2500 RPM. It helps to have an assistant to gently and slowly move the timer until the line is in the right spot. Lock down the base retainer.
Don't run too long without moving air over the engine, a fan does fine.
Oil mist will blow everywhere, you will drop several items, your timing light will fail, but you will succeed in getting it right.
And ask if you need clarification on anything.
Robbie

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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#5

Post by vitza » Thu May 26, 2011 1:40 am

RUBONE wrote:Vitza,
Relax, it is all very straightforward. The line is the advance mark, the dot most likely the TDC mark. To get close you can use the line for everything. When it is in the middle of the hole, the narrow lobe of the points cam should be close to the fiber on the points. To advance your timer all you need to do is rotate the cam. No need to access the weights, the cam and weights are connected together. You can use anything that will work to rotate the cam. I use a pair of old pliers that I ground a large part of the center out of so that the end of the pliers are like tongs that clear the screw head on the timer but can grip the cam. With timing mark centered, the narrow lobe approaching the points, if you rotate the points cam (it will only go one direction from a stopped position) the points should just begin to open at full advance (fully rotated). Make sure your points are gapped correctly before you start all this or you are wasting your time. You can tell when the points break by several methods. A very basic one is with a cigarette paper in the closed points when the unit is fully advanced you should just be able to slide it out. At that point the timing is close enough to start.
When running and using a timing light you are looking for the line marking in the center of the hole at approx. 2500 RPM. It helps to have an assistant to gently and slowly move the timer until the line is in the right spot. Lock down the base retainer.
Don't run too long without moving air over the engine, a fan does fine.
Oil mist will blow everywhere, you will drop several items, your timing light will fail, but you will succeed in getting it right.
And ask if you need clarification on anything.
Robbie
robbie, you are the man!! thanks!!!

-couple more questions, whats the significance of the sideways "8" on the flywheel?
-so when rotating the cam, im using the narrow portion of the lobe for the points to begin to open? (i know you said this but i just wanted to be 100% sure)
-gap the points at 20thousandths or you recommend 22?
-as far as timing with a light, hook the light up to the front cylinder plug wire and rev to 2.5k, then advance/retard breaker til the line is in the middle of the hole w/ the light on it? (again, just to make sure i have the steps down correctly)
-and finally, what plug would you recommend i go with? a guy i took the bike to once said that the spark plug hole is shorter than other STD head's he's seen, is there a way i can measure the thread length to know what exact length plugs i need?

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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#6

Post by Bosheff » Thu May 26, 2011 9:15 am

Sticking a baggie over the business end of the timing light secured with a rubber band will keep oil off of, and out of the innards of the light....bosheff

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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#7

Post by vitza » Thu May 26, 2011 9:47 am

i actually ended up running into the clear plug for the timing hole so i ordered it...

as far as spark plugs, im leaning towards the ngk bp5hs... i measured my thread reach and its ~12mm... how much should the plug project past the threads?

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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#8

Post by Panhead Ed » Thu May 26, 2011 11:36 am

Welcome ! dont expect to get a clear picture thru that "clear"timing plug , you"ll serve yourself well by painting the vertical line "timming mark on flywheel" any bright or reflective color,,, and only paint the line so as not to get confused , it goes passed the hole rather quickly ! Ed

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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#9

Post by TimmyV » Thu May 26, 2011 12:28 pm

I use Autolite 847 plugs in my '61 Pan.

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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#10

Post by Bosheff » Thu May 26, 2011 4:47 pm

What's wrong with H-D 3-4's?....bosheff

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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#11

Post by vitza » Thu May 26, 2011 5:10 pm

thank you guys for all the replies!!

ive usually had good luck with the ngk's on prior sportbikes so i figure id give them a try

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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#12

Post by fourthgear » Thu May 26, 2011 10:22 pm

You have an auto advance system , similar to a shovel head mtr . You can turn the whole timer /distributor or you can use the timing plate that your points are afixed to.

The slot at the bottom is for a screw driver to wedge in there to move the plate one way or the other .

The two nuts holding the locking the plate down ,are just long nuts & if you want to lube or inspect the throw weights ,all you have to do is remove them & lift the plate off .

As was said above, you can grab onto the point cam lobe with some thing ,to adv. it for setting the timing,but what ever you use ,make sure it doesn't mare the point cam surface ,because it will prematurely ware your points cam follower.

I use a simple 12/6 volt indicator light fixture for static timing . Anything like one from a trailer light will do .

Just connect one lead to where the points condenser is connected & one lead to ground on the bike & it with the ign. on ,you can turn the plate or timer ,with the point cam in full adv. till the light just begins to come on & your there ,of course your timing mark has to be in the window .& the point gap is correct .

It might not be a bad idea to check the point gap again after your done timing .

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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#13

Post by vitza » Fri May 27, 2011 2:15 am

10-4

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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#14

Post by panbagger » Sat May 28, 2011 1:55 am

ya know everybody has their own opinion on spark plugs, but I say what ever you think works best for you in your pan. I have a 52 and I have run Bosch Platinums in my pan. Had them in my pan for over 5 years and no problems what so ever. Just my 2 cents. Scott

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Re: need help, cant set timing on pan...

#15

Post by vitza » Sat May 28, 2011 3:02 am

got the bike running!! this is the easiest its ever started!! i havent even timed it with a light yet OR put in better plugs!

you guys all are awesome! im soooooo relieved!!


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