Erratic timing mark

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panhead_kicker
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Erratic timing mark

#1

Post by panhead_kicker » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:15 pm

The timing mark on my 64 flh is erratic in the hole. It looks to bounce 3/16s or so while idling. Could this be a trick of the rear timing mark showing up in the hole while the light's on it?



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Re: Erratic timing mark

#2

Post by steve_wood » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:00 am

Worn bushings in the circuit breaker maybe?

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Re: Erratic timing mark

#3

Post by panhead_kicker » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:39 am

steve_wood wrote:Worn bushings in the circuit breaker maybe?
Well, the shaft "feels" tight in the base, and I have shimmed the gear with washer 32537-48 to get below .008 gear end play.
How much timing mark bounce do you others see with the strobe on it? How about other 61-64 owners?

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Re: Erratic timing mark

#4

Post by Panacea » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:49 am

I just timed my 64 with a timing lite, the mark seems to bounce around a bit, (1/4" maybe). After thinking about it I think I'll try it again and run the RPM up a bit more to see if it smooths out...Mike

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Re: Erratic timing mark

#5

Post by 58flh » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:48 am

Hey guys I was reading your timing problems-----I timed alot of vintage bikes,& a light-strobe is mistake #1. The best way To time your machine is like this---jack-up rearwheel ,put in 2 or3rd gear---remove inspection hole nut, now bring the line to center of hole by turning the rearwheel, go easy as if you pass-it do not back-up continue round again--once timing mark is in center of hole----hook-up a testlight or voltmeter to your points,-now advance your points manually (.022) set to first!. as soon as the points start to open--light will come on or voltmeter will show 6-12 volts!. The point where the light comes on thats where you lock it in!. Then recheck your point-gap for .022 if not there move timing plate a smidge in direction it needs to go. If its not at .022 you will only have to move the plate a distence of .001 to.003 assuming your points cam is good-you can move more if needed, but I stay within these tolerences!. The reason you use rear wheel is that you take up all the slack in both chains, & gearcase giving you the truest TDC. you can get! My pan & other bikes ive set-up even shortsters start with 1-kick hot or cold. 2dryfires, hit the ignition & fire everytime. --trying to time these nikes with a strobe is a waste of time ,the magnifier they sell dont work-it gets oilsoaked from the wheels turning thats why you see bouncing LINES!---(GOOD-LUCK)---58flh 8)

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Re: Erratic timing mark

#6

Post by Panacea » Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:41 pm

I think the mark will move around a bit with the lite method, these arn't rocket ships. I'll just go for the middle of the variation and be happy...Mike

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Re: Erratic timing mark

#7

Post by Cotten » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:30 pm

Panhead_Kicker!

I strobe religiously.

Are you still running the dual-point timer?
If so, I believe you can strobe each cylinder separately.
Super-imposed images of both marks require a dead spark system.

One possible cause of phantom line images is bouncing points.
Beware of points with a finger to hold the moving contact instead of a broad blade.

....Cotten

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Oil on the clear plastic timing plug while using the strobe

#8

Post by Motorcyclemike » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:59 am

IF......you have a friend hold the Running Bike right slightly to the right while using the strobe method to time the Harley......The hot oil thats in the crank cases will be over on the Right side in the crank case and that way it will keep the timing plug much more clear and the mark will be more visible...it has always worked for me and it sure will you too !

Good Luck !

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Re: Erratic timing mark

#9

Post by 58flh » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:39 pm

Cotten wrote:Panhead_Kicker!

I strobe religiously.

Are you still running the dual-point timer?
If so, I believe you can strobe each cylinder separately.
Super-imposed images of both marks require a dead spark system.

One possible cause of phantom line images is bouncing points.
Beware of points with a finger to hold the moving contact instead of a broad blade.

....Cotten
Definitly good point!--about the finger!----Cotton I use 6cyl. chevy points from Napa---very well made ,more meat on them where it counts! also the actual point contacts are larger in diameter.---58flh

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Re: Erratic timing mark

#10

Post by panhead_kicker » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:31 pm

Single point timer is being used until I get a pretty consistent mis-fire sorted out. When talking about finger vs blade on the points, I'm betting you mean the fiber that's rides on the cam lobe ?

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Re: Erratic timing mark

#11

Post by Cotten » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:20 pm

Panhead_Kicker!

No, I mean the arm that holds the fiber follower and has a contact point at the end.

"Bounce" can be caused by a weak spring as well.

....Cotten

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Re: Erratic timing mark

#12

Post by panhead_kicker » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:39 am

Cotten wrote: Beware of points with a finger to hold the moving contact instead of a broad blade.

....Cotten
Ok , the points I am using must be the "finger" type points on the left. After looking at the two different types, finger vs blade, I'm not really understanding how one may be functionally superior over the other. (other than the Origin)
points.JPG
points.JPG (100.91 KiB) Viewed 1355 times

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Re: Erratic timing mark

#13

Post by Motorcyclemike » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:26 am

OK........we are all waiting to hear Why should WE Not Use The one on the left with the very narrow Finger!
Will some one step forward and tell us the issue with the one on the left ?
it sure looks crappy as compared to the larger blade on the one on the right !

Just wondering.......if its heat dissapation off the contact or the spring on the moving arm thats better OR weight issue at high RPM's ?

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Re: Erratic timing mark

#14

Post by Cotten » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:52 pm

MotorcycleMike!

Its because the design is more likely to 'bounce'.

My experience with the problem first manifested itself as strange pops and bangs other than loose exhaust pipes and such.
At the time, I had access to a Sun distributor analyzer, and it didn't mind the H-D auto-advance timer at all, even though it is not a distributor.
The assembly worked fine, and the weights moved the advance in an arc with RPM of sorts, but there were flashes of phantom spark, irratically both before and after proper timing.

A decent set of points eliminated the phantom sparks, and cured the strange motor pops of course.

....Cotten

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Re: Erratic timing mark

#15

Post by panhead_kicker » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:05 am

Cotten wrote: ...there were flashes of phantom spark, irratically both before and after proper timing.

A decent set of points eliminated the phantom sparks, and cured the strange motor pops of course.

....Cotten
Sure puts my situation in the ball park... That Delco in the pic has its fiber follower worn out, but I think I got another somewhere to try!
Thanks all

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