I need some help with an old bike

Information on the identification and numbering of frame, motor belly, transmission and other parts
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Glove
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92 FXDC
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I need some help with an old bike

#1

Post by Glove » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:28 pm

Hello from the new guy!

I have had an old bike setting around for too many years- wishbone frame-45 flat head-4sp-springer forks.... i guess you could call it a basket case.

I am trying to understand how to ID my frame in order to know what engine should be on it. Its my understanding there were no 45's put into wishbone frames.
I have found the top engine bracket on the bike resembles a panhead so I have assumed the bike started life as a pan, but thats just an asumption.

There is a lock cyl. located on the neck-right side and the frame has loops for a sidecar. I forget- but I think there is an electrical panel (whats left of it anyway) located on the riser tube for the seat.
I just learned HD used numbers on the frames from 54 and up (or is that from 1955 on?) - I have not been able to locate numbers on the frame but there is lots of paint to dig through.
The rear fender has been bobbed, but I do believe its an original 'hinged' type fender.
The shifter was removed from the tank (suicide style) and is now foot shift/hand clutch 'modernized' but the left tank does have filled in holes so I assume they are probably original too.

I can upload a picture after after membership approval?

...just looking for some direction. I dont want to restore it, just wanting to put a correct engine in there if I can figure out what it should be. What are some other points I can ue to help me narrow down a date for my frame?

Glove



Glove
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Picture

#2

Post by Glove » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:32 pm

Ahh, here ya go...a picture for an idea of what I am working with....

Image

panhead
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#3

Post by panhead » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:51 pm


Glove
Posts: 59
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#4

Post by Glove » Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:24 pm

That was the link I found from a google search Thanks! thats why I am here:)
I have had it narrowed down to something from 48 to early 54 due to the bent legs and the lock-cyl position. Was 1948 the 1st year for wishbone?

I just learned about the date code thing today, so I will need to look for those, but if Hd started to stamp date codes in 52, how can one ID a frame prior to this-from 48-52? If I find no numbers I can narrow it to 48-52?


I was told the lock cyl positioned on the right side was another detail of the 48-54 years.
...and am I correct in thinking no flatheads (or 45's) were placed in a wishbone frame?

Glove
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What am I

#5

Post by Glove » Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:03 pm

I should have made the title "What was I then...What am I now?"
:lol:
I am more interested in knowing more things about what it was.
The history I know...
When I purchased the bike it was setting in the back of a friends garage (Jack Hague) to be fixed.
Jack told me about the last time he was on it. Full fenders, suicide shifter, started on two kicks... it used to be different. Someone got it on a loan, didnt pay it off and the bike was reposessed in the condition seen in the pic. I bought it (10 years ago?) on the condition ole' Jack could make it start. Thinking back on ole' jack kicking that thing for 45+ mins brings back some memories.
Rest in peace, Jack.

So I had high hopes for the bike but time and money never got put aside for my project and there it sets. I think it was 3 years ago when I uncovered the thing for a kick. It puked oil after couple strokes and I have not touched it since.
sorry for the long winded story. I am still as hopefull about the project as the day I 1st seen the bike.
I like the taller front rim. Setting on the bike feels comfy. I started to add some forward controls but the flathead pipes dont allow a straight forward install....
Other things I know need addressed...
no choke, no lever, no cable
no throttle cable
clutch cable is too short
Wyco mag ignition system- questionable working order
Oil leaking from generator (missing and blocked off)
Electrical system-wires- total mess

I have been told someone went to a lot of work to get that engine/trans combo to work and to fit it to this frame.

Glove
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took some more pics and found some numbers

#6

Post by Glove » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:16 am

I pulled the bike out from its corner, removed the tanks and started looking for numbers.
I found some things that may or may not help.

On the frame, right side, lower down tube just below the sidecar loop I found 48E-76_ (something... 1 maybe?)
Momscamera072.jpg
Momscamera065.jpg
and then I found some numbers on the left side of the neck ini the top cavity just below the speedO boss
XE-35F
Momscamera050.jpg
zoomed out for perspective...
Momscamera052.jpg
...do these numbers on the forks give any clue to the date or manufacturer (original HD or aftermarket)
Momscamera098.jpg
Momscamera096.jpg
...and the more I think about it, I forget what top engine mounts looked like for pans vs knuckles... so here is a shot of the top engine bracket
Momscamera090.jpg
Momscamera059.jpg
Momscamera101.jpg
Lower front engine mount...
Momscamera104.jpg
and the lower rear engine mount...
Momscamera106.jpg
while I am at it .. here is another mystery....
Momscamera040.jpg
no numbers (not ground off)- 9/16" nuts on the heads= 45 flathead?
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Glove
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and how about a date for the speedometer?

#7

Post by Glove » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:27 am

forgot I took a shoot of the speedo, just for giggles and to see if it sheds light on any dates or models...
Momscamera099.jpg
Momscamera100.jpg
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#8

Post by Panacea » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:42 am

Glove, looks like a nice pan frame, still unspoiled with all the tabs, brackets,loops,dampener pin boss,unchopped neck. Half the work is done! Now all you need is a pan motor! I'm no expert but with a dampener pin boss ,it can't be a 48 cause they had springers, so 49-53 somewhere in there. Mike

VT

#9

Post by VT » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:01 am

Pan frame. Nice. Get motor, primer it with Krylon and ride it.

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#10

Post by Panacea » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:48 pm

Looks like it has a pan four speed and primary, Quite the conversation piece! Mike

Glove
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anything else?

#11

Post by Glove » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:18 pm

so I am the new guy here and this is my first project bike....

Panacea can you explain the dampener pin boss (location and function) for me? I assume this is for hydraulic forks and keeps them from hitting the frame in a sharp turn?

I was hoping to learn the forks are original for a pan but I wouldnt be mad about changing them out for some correct era hydraulics.

So I guess I will start shopping for engines.


*Panacea, yes, from what I recall, that is a 4 speed trans. I have had several peope tell me the engine/ trans combo wont fit on this bike- but there it is.

Anything else yall can tell me about this scooter?

Glove
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More pics

#12

Post by Glove » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:25 pm

I took a bunch of pictures yesterday.. here are a few more shots of the trans area
Momscamera059-1.jpg
Momscamera093.jpg
Momscamera091.jpg
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VT

#13

Post by VT » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:11 pm

can you explain the dampener pin boss (location and function) for me? I assume this is for hydraulic forks and keeps them from hitting the frame in a sharp turn?
You didn't ask me, but I can't shut up about '36-59, so: The anchor pin is essential in allowing the damper to work as engineered. The pin is decimal size and a driven fit into the boss. The anchor plate is suppose to fit snugly over the post. The damper was used in conjunction with a side car for fork wobble stability. If you put a Glide fork on a knuckle, you don't have the pin boss so just remove the anchor plate and tighten down the damper knob.
You have a real treasure here. If you're serious about the machine, you need to buy all the books for it. The spare parts books & the service manuals. You need to study and ask questions and study and then study some more. It's all in the books.
IMO, 1936-1959 has all the components to become mechanical religion, once people make the connection that the founders were on the path to mechanical perfection. It started in 1936 (the transmission reached perfection earlier, around 1940) and the motor peaked in 1958 when the OHV motor was perfected with a larger diameter and increased bearing surface pinion shaft. The last touches were made in 1959 with the addition of the neutral light switch. The motorcycle started on it's decline (became more complicated) after 1960. This is just my opinion. I don't mean to knock later models at all (A Panhead's a Panhead), but after 14 years of study it's is the way I see it.
If you wanted to remove the motor from the right side of the machine, all you have to do is remove the sprocket shaft nut, move the transmission up forward and remove the primary chain. Install a Pan motor.
Finally, don't cut or change anything to the frame. Find a mechanical discplined Harley mechanic that knows what he's doing. Good tip to his ability is to look at his shop. Is is clean and organized? Does he have a wall full of Harley tools? If he complains about "How Harley did things wrong, etc, etc." run out of the shop. The problem is, that once an unscrupulous mechanic finds out you don't know anything, they'll lead you down the road of their choosing. Stay 61 or 74 cu. in. Go any larger and you're on you own. Big inch people have the most recurring problems. Don't go there.
There are Flathead people out there that want your motor. Keep it in tact. Value is lessened with every part removed. Keep the original dust on it. Don't touch it. Sell the motor as it was removed on e-bay. You want a reliable Panhead motor? Contact Accurate Engineering in Dothan, Alabama. Stay 74". Stay 74" and in case I didn't say so, "STAY 74 INCH!" Demon's will try to lure you into big inch at every fork in the road. Stay 74". Alway's ask yourself, "Would the founders approve?" Afterall it's not your motorcycle, you're just the caretaker.
Prepare to spend lots and lots of money making your machine into a runner - Probably 10K-30K, so don't make any mistakes.
Last edited by VT on Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Glove
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edjumacation

#14

Post by Glove » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:18 pm

Hey VintageTwin, thanks much for the input. The whole reason this bike has sat for 10+ years of beinig in my care is because I dont want to change anything that should be. I dont have the years of wisdom about these bikes and I have really struggled to figure out what I have, what is was, and what I want it to be.
There will be nothing cut, welded, or bent on this frame.

Like I said before, I dont think I have enough here to make an official ID, just its an old wishbone pan frame that some-how got an un-numbered 45 stuck on it. (I was told this is because of A-military cases/engine or B-aftermarket cases. I dont think the #s were removed).
If I can gather enough proof, I have no problem with turning it into more of a restoration.
(for now, the flathead is going to pull me around- its neat!)

As far who and where this old thing gets serviced, thats going to be me. I feel ya about the serious stuff- like having case/ head work done, but I wont be stuck someplace on this thing and not know every bolt and cable. I have some background in mechanics, I own a few tools including a torque wrench :) I have some books, never enough though.
I guess I should have asked where this boss and anchor pin are located.
you kind of confused me in your message below...
"The anchor pin is essential in allowing the damper to work as engineered. The pin is decimal size and a driven fit into the boss. The anchor plate is suppose to fit snugly over the post. The damper was used in conjunction with a side car for fork wobble stability. (OK, where is this damper?) If you put a Glide fork on a knuckle, you don't have the pin boss so just remove the anchor plate and tighten down the damper knob. (not to be rude, I am just dumb- why is that important/related to my ID?)

You have a real treasure here."

so we agree all I can know for sure is ...a 49-53 wishbone frame w/ side car loops that had a panhead on it?

john HD
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#15

Post by john HD » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:28 pm

so we agree all I can know for sure is ...a 49-53 wishbone frame w/ side car loops that had a panhead on it?
yes it is.

you could find the right person to trade motors with you are better than half way done.

you are farther along than where i was when i started my pan project in 1988.

john

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