I need some help with an old bike

Information on the identification and numbering of frame, motor belly, transmission and other parts
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Glove
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#76

Post by Glove » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:49 pm

..and can I safely say this is a "W" series engine made from 1937-1942?



VPH-D
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#77

Post by VPH-D » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:38 pm

It is a W series engine. I don't remember ever seeing one stuck into a Big Twin frame that looks like it might actually have run. My guess is that the 'confi' numbers will indicate wartime manufacture. [42-45]
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Glove
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#78

Post by Glove » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:35 pm

got the Palmer book yesterday!

:shock: man there s some info in this thing

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#79

Post by Glove » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:11 am

VPH-D

I found matching case numbers-
45-5180
Image

there was also a 112-392 (part number?) and J-4- date code?
Image

and I found out how the engine sprocket arrangement came about ....
its not very pretty
Image

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#80

Post by Glove » Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:05 am

VPH-D... you out there?

Anyone... comments?

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#81

Post by Cotten » Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:07 pm

Is that some sort of bearing crammed in behind the weld, or a seal?

It appears to be a stickweld. Most likely you will find it wobbles with a dial indicator. The extension isn't readily recognizeable as anything that would have had the proper taper for a BT sprocket.

My guess is that a torch will be the easiest way to disassemble the motor.

....Cotten

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#82

Post by john HD » Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:17 pm

is it possible someone made an adaptor with internal taper and threads on the original 45 shaft, then spun it on as far as it would go and zapped it in place with a welder?

would like to see it sawed in half lengthwise to see what they did!

agree with cotten the hot wrench might be needed to get it out of the cases!

very interesting for sure!

john

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#83

Post by Glove » Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:05 am

you could say I was let down when I seen that combobulation.

Cotten- I dunno what lays in store for me. Your probably right about needing to cut that thing off before I can get the cases apart.

I think things will be better if I find a panhead.

So if anyone has or knows of a real 48 engine PLEASE let me know.

I am going to focus on the frame for now, then brakes, then go through my trans... mybe by thn I will have some leads on an engine.

Glove

VPH-D

#84

Post by VPH-D » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:29 pm

I would suggest that this motor was built with a non-numbered set of WLA cases, or was a complete non-numbered WLA motor. J4 is the date code indicating when the cases were cast, Sept of 1944. The confidential numbers indicate when the cases were machined as a pair, sometime in 1945.
This frame would be a great home for a 48 Pan motor, or any early Pan motor. Depends on what you want to do with it.
For a restoration, you'll need that 48 motor, and a whole lot of other parts. As I have said, I think the springer is an XA, which is not correct for a 48.
At one time a chrome XA springer brought big money from chopper guys.
If you're not interested in a restored model, the XA springer is something you don't see every day and would mucho funkyness.
Yuor WLA 45 motor has some value also, will help to offset the cost of a Pan engine.
VPH-D

VT

#85

Post by VT » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:49 pm

Yep.

Glove
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#86

Post by Glove » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:52 am

I would love to know where an early 48 pn engine is- worth puttng money and time into.

I dont want a full resto, I will keep the forks, they are cool- not too chopper-ish (I like the feel w/ the 21" wheel- and, the frame isnt cut), I want hand shift / foot clutch, floor boards, fenders, lights...I like the straight bars...crash bars might look good, maybe....I agree it needs to be a panhead bike again.

So thats the idea I have for this thing. The 45 is gong to set till I can get a different frame and try for a mock up racer/bobber something.

So are early 48 pans (correct engine) so hard to come by? I have read some of the troubles of the early pans.... would i be better to warp forward and put a newer pan in there? (they seem to be a little easier to come by).

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just asking

#87

Post by Glove » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:59 pm

How rare are the 48 ES and FS engines?

And how about the EL and FL engines?

...and nobody here in the forums has an early pan engine they want to part with?
Leads on something that needs some work?

I just dont want to stick one of those S&S aftermarket type engine in this frame. I wanna keep it HD.

VT

#88

Post by VT » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:09 pm

Nah...you don't want a 48 motor. No one's going to sell you one anyway. You have the opportunity to go where not many people have ever gone. Buy a V-Twin Pan motor, replica, that uses V-Twin replica cases. Not STD, not S&S. V-Twin. Then, as soon as you get the motor, leave it in the crate and ship the motor to San Diego or Alabama. Have a Harley mechanic tear it all apart and rebuild it. Expensive? Yep. Worth it? Yep. Cause your getting a motor that has been built twice.
Even if you found someone to sell you a 48 motor, you'd no doubt have to rebuild it. Get a V-Twin motor. A 10-1996 48-53 (roller bearing), alloy finish, V-Twin Pan motor is 6K. You'll need another 2 to 3K to send it, to say, Alabama and have them rebuild it. That extra 2 to 3K will get you a manifold and spark plugs. That may sound like alot of money, but go out and price a new Mercedes and it sounds cheap.

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#89

Post by john HD » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:56 am

i would suggest attending the davenport meet in august and shop for a motor there.

they are not cheap but can be had, pans are a lot easier to find than knucks.

there be pans a plenty there, just bring a big wad of cash. if not, you can probably find a set of titled cases to start with.

john

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#90

Post by VPH-D » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:41 pm

1948 had the highest production numbers of all Panheads. If you check production numbers for the era, it is appalling how much total production dropped off every year, about 25%! So going by sheer nunbers, the 48 would be a little easier to find than say a 50.

If your are building a mild custom / bobber bike, any pan motor 48-64 would be acceptable for use. In the long run however, the correct 48 motor would bring higher dollars when you sell it.

If the purpose of this effort is to ride a Harley-Davidson, I would advise against purchasing any aftermarket crankcases or engine assembly. Your state won't issue a title stating anything other than "special construction' or some other term that means "this machine is NOT a Harley-Davidson".

Cruise around E-Bay or Walneck's to check for any motors for sale, and in addition, to see how much less a machine is worth if it has aftermarket crankcases or engine.

I personally find it offense to put any of my, or my wife's Harley-Davidsons in even casual bike show next to somebody's fake Panhead or Knucklehead. They just kind of remind me of the BOZO bikes they build on TV. This, however, is a personal problem, which may not bother you.
VPH-D

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