1964 Swingarm identification

Information on the identification and numbering of frame, motor belly, transmission and other parts
Speeding Big Twin
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Re: 1964 Swingarm?

#16

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:32 am

You’re welcome, Kevin, and thanks for confirming 47556 58.

That swingarm appears to be somewhere from late-59 to 61 inclusive. Firstly, it seems that as of about late-59 models extra material was added to the left axle clip and I highlighted that area with a red line in your photo below:
IMG_4734.jpg
The extra material is visible in the Harley factory photo of the 1960 prototype Panhead (the 59 prototype doesn't have it) but on this forum earlier in the year we discussed a late-59 Pan that had one of these swingarms. The forum member concerned is the second owner and it appears the swingarm is original to the bike. And as you’d know, a part officially introduced at the start of a certain model year may in fact sometimes debut very late in the previous model year.

Secondly, you mentioned your early swingarm doesn’t have a grease fitting so that makes yours 61 or earlier and that helps leave us with late-59 to 61 inclusive as the range for your swingarm.

The blue line in your picture is where you may find forging number 47614-58, followed by a hallmark (A in a jar) and a die number. I imagine the die number may be 3, 4, or 5. I doubt it will be higher than 5 but if it is can you please let me know. Outside the left clip you may find a production run number and I’ll guess it may be approximately 70? At this stage it seems production run numbers may have started in the 60s and may have continued through 100. Then they may have gone to H1 and continued upwards, at least into the H40s.

Outside the R-H clip you may find forging number 47606-58 and a hallmark consisting of the letter Q with WF inside it. There may also be a die number and I’ll guess it is approximately 4 (?) but these R-H die numbers are something I’m still working on.
Eric
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FabKevin
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Re: 1964 Swingarm?

#17

Post by FabKevin » Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:44 pm

The Die Mark is #5. This is the best pic I could get of it.
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FabKevin
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Re: 1964 Swingarm?

#18

Post by FabKevin » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:04 pm

The right side axleplate appears to be double stamped with regard to the casting number. You can see the 47606 58 clearly, and below it is another number, ending in 58. Also, is the number 13 but it is upside down relative to the rest of the casting numbers.
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Speeding Big Twin
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Re: 1964 Swingarm?

#19

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:13 pm

Good photos. Die number 5 is the highest I’ve seen inside the left clip of a late-59–61 swingarm and it’s the lowest I’ve seen inside the left clip of a 62 model.

Forging number on the R-H clip isn’t always in exactly the same position and the example below is further forward than yours. Notice this 58 is in about the same spot as your ghost 58 so I think the hidden characters on your swingarm may be 47606, meaning you may have two forging numbers the same as each other. I don’t know anything about forging processes but maybe someone can explain how it happened.
R-H forging.jpg
Die number 13 is higher than I was expecting but these R-H die numbers are something I’m still working on, as I mentioned above. In my photo the die number appears to be 1 but it’s on a swingarm that may have first appeared for early-58 or mid-58. Die number 1 is also outside the left clip.

For late-59–61 swingarms, I have examples of die numbers 4 and 5 on the R-H clip which is why I thought yours may be approximately 4. I have a photo of die number 12 on the R-H clip of a 62 model so your swingarm having 13 may suggest yours is more likely to be a 1961 swingarm than late-59 or 60. But I cannot be sure about that. Generally speaking, die numbers and run numbers get higher as the model years get later but the combination of numbers on some swingarms indicate the forgings weren’t always used in the order in which they were made.
Eric
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FabKevin
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Re: 1964 Swingarm?

#20

Post by FabKevin » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:03 pm

Thank you for all of your help, Speeding Big Twin. I will run this swingarm and drum combo on my project. As I said earlier, it will be a mix-matched set of parts to create a rider. One last thing, is there any way to tell when the factory stopped making drop-seat style frames in 1964, and started the e start frames? Mine is a 4C.

Speeding Big Twin
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Re: 1964 Swingarm?

#21

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:43 am

I can’t say for sure when the change occurred. The latest date codes I’ve seen for 1964 model Pan frames are D4 and E4. For 1965 model Pan frames the earliest date code I’m aware of is 4G.

Something to watch out for are date codes on replacement frames—for example, I have photos of L6 (December 66) on a 58–64 style frame. The frame even has factory-stamped additional ID of F3+++ on the left side of the steering head and F was one of the letters used for 66–67.
Eric

FabKevin
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Re: 1964 Swingarm?

#22

Post by FabKevin » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:09 pm

That's exactly what I was looking for. I searched for a long time for that, to no avail!

I came across a replacement shovel frame once, when I took in a '71 to be straightened. The seat post area was wrapped with sheet metal like the '81-84 frames, but it was stamped with '71 numbers. At first I thought it was a re-stamp job, but it turned out to be a replacement frame. You learn something everyday.

Thanks again for all of your help. I hope to have a driveline later this week, if all goes well.

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Re: 1964 Swingarm?

#23

Post by Huck » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:19 pm

Hope it all comes together for you. You'll be smitten by it.
I'm sure you'll build a sweet Pan.

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