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Cylinder casting dates

Information on the identification and numbering of frame, motor belly, transmission and other parts
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Bigincher
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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#91

Post by Bigincher » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:57 pm

panz4ever wrote:
jdpan wrote:Didn't '49 and '59 both have the oil holes in the wall? Little confused here on the difference between the two years. If the only years that used external oilers were '63-'65, how can you tell the difference between '49 and '59?
As Big stated, 49 models do not have the hole in the cylinder wall...
(With all due respect, UPSROD said the same thing...! :D )



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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#92

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:17 am

jdpan, as noted above there are three spans of years for H-D Panhead cylinders: 48-52; 53-62; and 63-65. The 63-65 type has NO feed oil passage. So if your two rusty cylinders have NO feed oil passage then the number 4 on the date plate of each of them would indicate casting in 1964.

Your two black cylinders could have been cast in either 59 or 49. Even if there are drain holes present in the cylinder bore that doesn't necessarily mean they were cast in 59. Because as I mentioned in my first post: "sometimes you'll find 48-52 cylinders which were later drilled to drain through the inside of the cylinder like subsequent years."

I also mentioned before that there was a difference at the base on the rear of some early Pan rear cylinders and I posted a photo of my cylinders cast in 51 and 63 to illustrate the difference. The left sides of the base of those two cylinders are also slightly different to each other and I've been looking at bikes in Palmer’s book but the lower left of the rear cylinder on the 63 prototype (62 engine) in the book appears to be the same style as my 51 rear cylinder so now I don't think we can use that to differentiate between 59 and 49.

You could try measuring your two black cylinders and if they measure to E-series size that would INDICATE 49 casting as opposed to 59 because E-series Panheads weren't made after 52. But of course that still wouldn't be conclusive because we don't know what's happened to those black cylinders over the years. Eric

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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#93

Post by jdpan » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:26 pm

Dayng! The motor factory certainly didnt like following any set rules it seems thats for sure.. I reckon back in the day emphasis wasnt on accurate product dating , but to get as amany out as quick as possible.
Seriously appreciate your input SBT! For me, identifying these cylinders isnt critical as Im not building a period correct bike, just more curious than anything since these things have been taking up space in the garage for so many years.

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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#94

Post by panhead_kicker » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:27 am

Aside from what Bob said about 48 cylinders not having casting code plates, are there any other identifying traits for 48?
I am guessing what I have here are either possibly 48's or aftermarket. I can't find any numbers or symbols anywhere. Both oil passages go from top to bottom, no hole in the cylinder walls.
DSCN6004.JPG
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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#95

Post by Robert Luland » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:44 am

I will post pics of my 48s when I get into the shop in the morning. If I remember right, the return area on one of the cylinders is beefier. Bob

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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#96

Post by Robert Luland » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:59 am

From Brain on the Amca forum:

there was an early set of cylinders that did not have date codes, they were marked 120-48 on the front cyl only I think. these cyls are different in the oil return area, the block aronnd the return appears heavier and the fins appear smaller. These were used in 48 and perhaps some of 49. here are some pics of one.
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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#97

Post by FlatHeadSix » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:43 am

Bob,
Those are exactly like the jugs on my '49 (fairly early production), no date codes, casting number stamped on the front cylinder only, similar fin size and arrangement. It would be neat to know how far into the '49 production year they used those, and exactly when the date codes began to appear.

Anybody have a '49 with the additional codes that they feel are reasonably OEM?

mike

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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#98

Post by Robert Luland » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:05 pm

Sorry it took me so long to get to this. These are pics of my 48 cylinders. Bob
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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#99

Post by FlatHeadSix » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:31 pm

Great pictures Bob, thanks for posting them!

My '49 jugs are exactly like that, the ONLY marking on them is that "120-48" on the base of the front cylinder. It always appeared to be stamped, to me anyway, rather than cast into the jug.

mike

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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#100

Post by panhead_kicker » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:28 am

yep, thanks Bob. I think the pair I displayed above must be aftermarket. The fins on the oil drain of mine are almost non existant.

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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#101

Post by 1950Panhead » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:18 am

Another 48 front cylinder
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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#102

Post by Speeding Big Twin » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:07 am

Good photos, guys. And just for comparison, I've posted two of my rear cylinders to show the fins over their return oil passages. Cylinder at below left has casting ID of B 9-1 (Feb 9, 1951) so no return hole in the bore. Cylinder at right has ID of H 19-3 (Aug 19, 1963) and therefore has no feed hole.

It isn't exactly clear in my photo but the fins over the two return passages are almost all the same as each other. Eric
1951and1963leftside.jpg
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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#103

Post by panz4ever » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:30 pm

Eric, good pics. Think what also helps set the two apart is the added casting mark at the base of the 63 cylinder. Have those on my 65 pan, but there are none on a pair of 60 cylinders.

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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#104

Post by panz4ever » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:21 pm

Pics from a set I saw on ebay. Seller says they have the hole drilled in the cylinder wall. Have more pics if needed. Thinking these are 53. BUT could they be 63? Anyone with a set of 63 used for outside oiler heads. My 65 cylinders have the added casting mark as in Eric's. the set in ebay do not have the additional casting mark

Image

Image

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Re: Cylinder casting dates

#105

Post by jdpan » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:21 pm

jdpan wrote:For your viewing pleasure and I.D. Both sets have oil holes in the cylinder wall.

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By the way, if anyone can put these to good use, hit me up...

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