1950Panhead wrote: ... interesting spacing on the vin, fonts match other 53's, 1 has a foot (Eric, I have a 53 vin with no foot on 1, two types of 1 in 53?)
Tell barn fresh to list some of his vin 1000 bikes, Eric thinks there are 94 of them except none have been seen except for three factory prototype photos.
Regarding engines with number 1000, a couple of things need to be straightened out:
1. I did not
say the amount you have attributed to me. You
are the person who said 94. At first in another thread you said that from 1930 to 1956 there should be at least 51 VIN 1000 bikes. I said I disagreed with that minimum.
said this: â€˜Count is 94 VIN 1000 bikes and not one has been seen, except three (counting Herb's) factory prototype photos. Statically getting close to not possible, unless, of course, they never left the factory. Even if one was found it would be an exception.â€™
So the amount you are now attributing to me was your second estimate
. I did not
say I agreed with your second estimate
. As a matter of fact, I questioned you about your counting of the B-series lightweight and the S-series lightweight as if they were in different engine families. And I explained why I thought they were in the same engine family as each other. Therefore it is obvious I did not
agree with your total of 94. But that does not mean that you can now adjust the total accordingly and then attribute a further apparent new total to me either. Think about it.
2. Neither Herb nor I said that the photo used by him in The Antique Motorcycle
was of a prototype. I told you I would ask Herb on CAI about that bike. Did you not read that and his subsequent reply?
In another thread on this forum I said I could not explain why we have not seen more VIN 1000 machines but we know that was the start number for many years because we have official H-D references to it such as the layout sheets. And I said in June that Herb Wagner knew of a mention re the 1000 start in the Q&A handbook by your Uncle Frank (Revised Army Edition 1945), page 177 which stated that all Harley-Davidson motor numbers start off a new season with 1000.
We have factory photos showing some prototypes had number 1000. And we have factory photos showing some prototypes did not have that number. Some protos did not even have an engine from the model year they were representing and I supplied evidence of that previously. Did you not read it?
Do you believe the layout sheet I posted above? Do you believe the three machines I spoke of with number 1000 were made? If not, why not?
Regarding the 53K on eBay, I think the reason for the space between the K and the first sequence character is because whoever did the stamping was aware that the machining of the area immediately surrounding the top crankcase stud hole could compromise any characters stamped too close to that area. You will see similar spacing applied to some other machines at times but not always.
You said you have a 53 VIN with no foot on the 1. And I am not surprised. Because 1s do not have a foot. And neither do other characters. What some characters do have at the base is a horizontal serif. And some serifs at the base are wider than others. The 1 and the other characters in that Model K serial number appear to be the usual types for the K-series. But the 1 is a different type to the 1 used that year for Panheads and Servi-Cars. The 3 and the 0 are also different to the types used for Pans and Servis that year. Maybe even the 5 is different too but I am not sure yet. Anyway, the characters in the 53K serial number appear to be the usual types for the K-series.
For serial numbers, Harley used at least one type of 1 that had no serif at the base and I have examples of it from around 1920â€“23 but I have not seen it in a factory-stamped serial number for 1953, regardless of model. Can you post a photo of the 53 VIN you have?
While on the subject of 1s, Palmer makes specific mention on page 8 in his 32â€“52 military book regarding the alleged year the 1 changed from one type to another. But he got the changeover point wrong by about three years. And the book gives the impression that was the only change to the 1 over the years covered (32â€“52). But the book is wrong about that. And there are other problems with serial number info on that same page. Eric