Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

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Lethal Farce
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Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#1

Post by Lethal Farce » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:56 pm

Hi Guys,
Putting together the heads for my Pan. I found I need "oilers" and ordered some with the special nuts to hold down my rocker assemblies. How do the oilers work? On my rocker assemblies only one of the covers has a small hole above the shaft at the valve side of the cap. Does the oil come out of that hole?
Thanks as always for you patience with my stupid questions.
LF



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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#2

Post by Cotten » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:03 pm

LF!

That is not a stupid question by any means, as it is not apparent to me how they can do much of anything!

My best guess is that splash, and drip from the felts, is intended to fill the tube from above, where it then drools from its ball-check in a 'metered' manner.

The Service Manual indicates that used units will over-lubricate, which I find hard to fathom as well.

I look forward to anyone's insights into this curious engineering.

....Cotten

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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#3

Post by Lethal Farce » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:07 pm

Thanks Cotten,
Makes sense. I guess the small (.060") hole, is nothing to worry about.
LF

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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#4

Post by panhead_kicker » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:20 pm

The Oiler has a small groove which "connects" the stud hole to the oiler tube. The stud hole looks like it is channeled oil from the bearing,directly below.
Seems to me like the oil fed to the bearing can work its way out the channel in the bronze bearing block, up the stud hole, then out the groove to the tube.
Have I interpreted this incorrectly?
feed.JPG
oiler.JPG
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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#5

Post by john HD » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:17 am

that makes sense!

john

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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#6

Post by 108 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:28 am

I bought a pair of oilers on a whim a couple of years ago when I was ordering parts to reseal my pans, then I remmembered it still had the '48 springs, then I decided to .......anyway, I also had to study them a while to figure out how they worked. Part of the trouble was the grooves were poorly stamped and hardly noticeable. After fixing that I set the heads at the same angle they would be on the engine and let oil run down the tube and found the tube needed to be bent to get the oil to the rocker tip. Actually, my rocker tips,guides and valve stems were worn very little after 20K+ and many dry starts but they might help some.

Lethal Farce
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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#7

Post by Lethal Farce » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:52 am

Good detective work Pan Kicker. I had not even noticed those grooves you showed. I took apart my rockers and re assembled them so the grooves will be to the intake valve position. The other only question is that small hole shown in your bottom pic. Is that important? I have only one?
LF

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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#8

Post by Cotten » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:40 pm

Great theory, but I have two questions:

What keeps the nut from crushing the channel in the oiler that the oil is supposed to come out of?
(Why would used units, which would be most likely to be blocked in this manner, over-oil?)

And,

Why did '48s have a copper washer installed there to seal it?

As I posted, I really have no good clues.

....Cotten
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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#9

Post by Lethal Farce » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:46 pm

Cotten,
It looks like the oil is should pass thru the ID of the washer due to those little standoffs. To me, it is not clear if the washer should be above or below the oiler. I would think both sides would be best. Also like you said, the oiler groove being crushed is a real possibility. It seems to be too much black magic and not sound engineering. All that being said, I cant find those copper gaskets for sale. Do you have any for sale?
LF

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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#10

Post by panhead_kicker » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:12 am

Those washers don't look like they would actually seal in oil, with the three ID nibs sticking out. Did the oilers actually get used on 48s? The part number for both of them end in -49. From what I have read, the channels in the bearing halves did not exist in early 48, they were added later because of oil issues with the arms. They were added to let dirty oil carry particles out of the bearing. Maybe that's why they did away with the washers if they actually held the oil in.
Here is a bit of evidence (see below) I found in the Service Manual, Figure 3A-4. This at least indicates the design intention of the oil flow for 63-65. How well its works , I can't comment. The oil is only intended to "drip" onto the intake valve stem from the oiler tube.
Cotten, how would over oiling, at this point, manifest itself? With the slant of the head, it doesn't look like oil would have a chance to pool around the valve guide, unless some thing restricted the return. Oil would also be coming out of the diagonally drilled hole in the later model brass rocker bearing halves, as pointed out in the picture above by Lethal.
Lethal, I think the hole is only typically found on the later intake rockers (that's how mine are set up), but I am not positive. This hole was supposedly the last modification made to the bearing blocks, to help get the dirty oil out.
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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#11

Post by Cotten » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:42 am

Just to add to the confusion (because I really find the whole oiler design confusing),
Here's a pic of various rocker variations (perhaps not all of them!)

Note the black arrows point to drip holes that I have been led to believe indicates they are Intake blocks.

Note that the supply grooves seem to exist on both exhausts and intakes (1 and 1'), although exhaust 2 has none, and intake 2' only has one!

Why would the extra supply grooves be cut to studs that do not take an oiler?

The Factory was probably just making it up as they went.
I'm just thankful that Panheads seem to do great no matter what!

....Cotten
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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#12

Post by panhead_kicker » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:26 am

Why would the extra supply grooves be cut to studs that do not take an oiler?

The Factory was probably just making it up as they went.
Clymers talks about the groove's main purpose being to allow the oil out, not necessarily put there to only feed the oiler. (I wonder where the authors got their info?) A "bonus" to also now supply the oiler, which would only have supplied the felt drippings, prior to the grooves.
The rough cast bronze intakes with the cast numbers are supposed to be the older ones I think, which you might not expect to have the grooves. Clymers discusses how one would go about cutting the grooves and drilling the hole to "upgrade" the older hardware. Maybe someone was "upgrading" the older intake 2' in your picture! <grin>

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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#13

Post by mbskeam » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:32 am

I add the holes to 2 of mine and slots also...
I'm just funny that way...LOL

mbskeam

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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#14

Post by 108 » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:00 am

Kicker, Your right, my '48 blocks did not have the groove over to the stud holes either. Thats another reason why I couldnt figure out how the oiler worked, untill I studied that same oil curcuit diagram and realized I would have to grind them in. Cotton , I added thin stainless washers under the nuts to prevent smashing the groove closed.

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Re: Panhead Rocker Oiler questions

#15

Post by caschnd1 » Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:04 am

Here's a curve ball for ya... I've got a set of heads with almost 60K miles of riding on them and I don't use the rocker oilers. I'm skeptical that they really did much of anything.

-Craig

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