Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

Top End (cylinders and heads)
FlatHeadSix
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Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#16

Post by FlatHeadSix » Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:55 pm

VT
If the valves are set way too tight the valves will not close, no compression, the engine won't start. An engine that doesn't run can not destroy itself.

If the valves are set moderately or marginally too tight the affect would be prematurely burnt valve faces or seats. But here again the other symptoms like low compression, hard starting, no power, etc., would (or should) alert you to what is going on.

On the other hand, if the rods are too loose, every time that cam lobe comes around to take up the slack it pounds into the tappet roller, both ends of the push rod will then pound into their sockets and then the other end of the rocker arm pounds down onto the valve stem, its like turning somebody loose inside your engine with a hammer. If you can stand the noise, eventually something's got to give. If the rods are set way too loose you also run the risk of having them jump out of the sockets, death for your motor?, absolutely!

Setting them tight is the "Fail-Safe" approach. (and they sound much better too)

jmho

mike



VT

Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#17

Post by VT » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:50 pm

Volume 1 describes how to adjust solid lifter tappets. Period. It was written by Stett, an MMI graduate and premier motor builder for Truett & Osborne.
Now, if some of the "self-trained mechanics" think you should adjust solid lifters another way, then it's your choice. Go with who you trust.
I actually own two Panheads with solid lifters, so my advice is tested not theorized.
One motor is an aluminum pushrod conversion, the other is a JIMS & S&S valve train. Both tappet styles are adjusted the same way. Happy motoring one and all. 8)

FlatHeadSix
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Location: Lonoke, Arkansas

Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#18

Post by FlatHeadSix » Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:06 pm

VT
I'm not trying to start another push rod war here. As I mentioned above, the "tightness" is a very subjective thing, different for every mechanic; "tightness" is in the "feel" of each individual who adjusts a pushrod.

If your engine does not rattle and clatter and click and tick after it warms up then your method has set them tight enough, you did it correctly.

Listen to the engine, it will definitely talk to you and tell you if its NOT right.

mike

mbskeam
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Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#19

Post by mbskeam » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:07 pm

in the 15 years I've had my pan I have tryed it all sorts of ways....

these are aluminum type.....

from being able to spin the rod with the side of my finger to tight where I need to use 3 fingers to spin it,
I used to set them on the loose side, but a few years ago I found that 2 of the steel ends had beaten into the pushrod it self....

now I set them tight, 3 fingers to turn....

if you set them TOOO tight then the bike most likley will not start, or run like crap.....
if it was me and this happened after ajusting the pushrods, I think it would be time to recheck my work.....
but as I am perfect this never would happen....LOL

if they are set way too loose, or come loose the bike will be a f'in pain to start......been there also....

john HD
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Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#20

Post by john HD » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:28 pm

Panheads should not sound like sportsters, and should not be adjusted like them, either.
yeah no kidding! i used to have a XLCR when i was in my hooligan stage of life. that one you set loose, and it sounded like a party of elves with hammers in the valve chest!

let's stop the "who is right" discussion on pushrods right now.

you guys will have to agree to disagree.

john

indianut
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Bikes: American
Location: Florida

Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#21

Post by indianut » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:14 am

FlatHeadSix wrote:Indianut



Solid lifters are bullet proof

mike
Sorry, but the Hydraulic Lifters in my Stock 1961 FLH are Bulletproof also. And they are Quiet, Easy on the Valvetrain, and Dependable also. AND once adjusted, they are good for oh, about 30-40,000 miles between adjustments.And this is a Bike that is Ridden, and Ridden Hard......From one side of America to the other! The main problem I have seen with Hydraulics failing is improper clearance between the lifters and the Lifter Bores. So, if you run your engine with Loose and Sloppy tolerances, solids might be your ticket!

Cotten
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Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#22

Post by Cotten » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:14 am

There's a time and a place for either solid or hydraulic lifters, when properly applied.

If our Host and Moderators will allow it, I shall soon start a fresh thread entry with my observations, so that all may to critique at will,.. in a civil manner of course...

...Cotten

john HD
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Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#23

Post by john HD » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:19 am

by all means cotten!

john

lockdoc
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Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#24

Post by lockdoc » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:54 am

I just want to know how you all with solids who claim to check the adjustment every 3000 miles keep your push rod covers from being a leaking mess. I tried solids just for the hell of it once because I needed new push rods and I found a solid conversion for cheap. They worked fine other than it seemed much harder to kick over in the morning. The problem I have is that no matter what, If I disturb the rod covers AT ALL they will leak unless I change all the gaskets. That meant every time I needed to adjust I had to pull everything. The hydraulics I adjust once and I'm done and I stay dry. Since I don't travel in the red zone I have no real concern with floating.

51Hog
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Location: Wasilla, Alaska

Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#25

Post by 51Hog » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:13 am

I use solids.
I do the tight set on the aluminum push rods.
I use the blue silicone (Cheap push rod seals)
No---They do not slip out of place.
No---The oil does not attack them.
No---They do not leak.
I do check the lash at less than 1000 miles.
After new assembly, I check at 100 miles- 300 miles- 500 miles- 1000 miles. (Only had to touch up the adjustment on the two exhaust valves once. At 300 miles.)
My Pan is 100% leak free ----at least for now :P
There must be some mist coming from the CC vent that I have routed to the rear chain, but it does not oil the chain, and does not drip either.

lockdoc
Posts: 117
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Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#26

Post by lockdoc » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:30 am

That's funny that you mentioned the blue silicone seals. It always amazes me how peoples experiences with the same product can be so different. I used them as well. As soon as they got warm they turned mushy and sucked right into the tube. They reminded me of a slimy fish.

51Hog
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Location: Wasilla, Alaska

Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#27

Post by 51Hog » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:29 pm

Mine get really slippery with oil on them too.
I looked at the end of the tubes and they have a slight angle to them. The edge is beveled in such a way that the seal is pushed to the outside of the hole. They appear to be OEM tubes.
When I was running cork seals, they didn't really leak. They kind of let an oil residue out that caught dust.
Even after checking the lash, they didn't leak.
Are your cork seals old and hard?
Are your springs soft?
Dale
Last edited by 51Hog on Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mbskeam
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Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#28

Post by mbskeam » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:02 pm

I have used the blue silicone type and black rubber style more like O-ring material.
and cork, from what I have seen is that the black style did the best, as far as leak control, they do get hard with time
the blue did not leak but did get real soft over time and the cork do okay for leaks some weeping, but not bad and these act like cork will as it ages
right now I have cork and black on mine

are hydraulics easier on the valve train... yes
do they need to be adjusted from time to time....no
but get crap into them and the oil supply weak....they will make noise


solids....I run them because my right case is a 49
and I like to tinker with my bike...even if it aint broke...
I set the lifters about 1000 miles on the exhaust and 2000 on the intakes......
about 2 to 1
if one gets loose I can hear it.....
takes less than 15 min to set all 4

as too, pushrods I have only used the aluminum type can say about steel....

these are just my observations....
from what I have found that works for my engine, and that makes me happy with the results....
and believe you me, I am a pick ass about some things....
oil leaks and a bad sounding engine.....

not on my watch mister.....LOL

lockdoc
Posts: 117
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Bikes: 65 Panhead in a 70 FLH frame
Location: Northeast PA, USA

Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#29

Post by lockdoc » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:41 pm

I have relatively new Colony tubes and covers. The bevels on the ends definitely aid the slippery blue seals into the tubes. Must be a difference between them and OEM. After a few trials I have found the James cork\rubber to work best for my setup.

VT

Re: Solid Lifter Conv Kit?

#30

Post by VT » Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:09 pm

Note to all Vol. 1 owners. Our push rod lash adjustment is called "Close Push Rod Adjustment" to distinguish it from the OEM method described in the Knucklehead manual, which could (through an individual's interpretation) allow the lash to be adjusted too loose. Our method is used for aluminum or steel push rod adjustment and should be followed to the letter. I'm here to answer any questions about anything we print.
If there were a correction on any of the procedures we published, it would be listed under "See All Editorial Reviews" on our amazon.com book-sites. Good road to everyone.

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