Cycle Electric Generator

Electrical

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nan00k
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Cycle Electric Generator

#1

Post by nan00k » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:01 pm

I'm trying to get the charging system on the 45 tidied up. It has a 12v CE 65A generator and the sparks who is sorting out hardware has asked me if the internal wiring of the genny is in series or shunt ?. If I took itoff and looked at the internals I wouldn't have a clue what I was looking at except for recognising the armature and brushes, does anyone here have that kind of electrical knowledge. Thanks



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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#2

Post by RooDog » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:04 pm

Why not just go straight to Cycle Electric and ask them?

http://cycleelectricinc.com/

...RooDog....

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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#3

Post by nan00k » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:31 pm

They give no email address.

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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#4

Post by RooDog » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:50 pm

OK, I see that.
Why not show your technician the factory service manual with pictures and diagrams of the H-D 65A genny and let him figure it out. CE's genny is the same as the H-D 65A.
What seems to be the problem if there is one?
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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#5

Post by nan00k » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:57 am

the mechanical regulator points pad literally fell off so decided a solid state regulator was the way to go. The manufacturer / supplier is mainly familiar with old Brit stuff and does not want to supply unsuitable part or wiring instructions so has asked the question about the generator 'is it series or shunt wound'.

I thought this old technology on m/c's was all the same, apparently not. I'll try giving Cycle Elec' a call.

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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#6

Post by chuckthebeatertruck » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:33 pm

Almost all two brush 6 and 12 volt D.C. Generators on cars and bikes are series wound, including the 65a which the Cycle electric copies.

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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#7

Post by nan00k » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:46 pm

thanks for that, i'm kind of caught in the middle so think will fit a mechanical regulator and hope for the best.

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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#8

Post by Frankenstein » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:45 am

nan00k, Chuck...truck misspoke re genny's, most car and motorcycle generators are Shunt wound, that is, the exciting field is in parallel with the armature. Even unexciting fields are wired in parallel :D
I do offer an electronic regulator,lifetime warranty, PM if interested.
DD

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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#9

Post by Blind Melon » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:00 pm

One other option is to use the Bosch regulator that 1960's Sportsters used with that 12 generator... They are compact and reliable.

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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#10

Post by chuckthebeatertruck » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:08 pm

Ok, I stand corrected.

I was always under the impression series wound meant the poles were pass through from one to the other . . . I've been using the wrong terminology for a long time.

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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#11

Post by Andygears » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:51 pm

The regulator and battery work together, stock battery for stock regulator ( or Bosch) , low output for mini battery.

My two cents
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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#12

Post by nan00k » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:42 am

learning on my feet about regulators, yes majority seem to be shunt wound and definitely want to be limited to 10 amp draw otherwise they will overwork the genny.

what I can't figure is the vast cost difference in solid state and mechanical regulators or is it a case of you get what you pay for.

Also, with mechanical regulators it seems some can have three coils not just the two and they can be adjustable so the third coil would allow for the adjustment of amps.

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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#13

Post by Frankenstein » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:27 pm

Chuck...Truck, figured as much, you always seem pretty up on this stuff.
Nan00k, as you guessed, the third coil in a regulator is a current limiting device. As to pricing differentials, indeed, you do get what you pay for. Nowadays, it costs more to build a reliable mechanical regulator than assembling a few transistors. Regulators should be a precision constructed device with some relatively expensive components,(point materials) precisely aligned. Not going to happen in China.
I presume Cycle electric builds temperature sensing in their built in gen/regulator systems to help prevent drawing too much current for too long a time. As far as I know, all other electronic regulators only use voltage regulation only to prevent drawing too much current from the generator. And it's Power, (current times voltage) that heats an armature and causes it to fail.
The 65A is very easily damaged from excessive current draw. The design was a last gasp one to allow the genny to keep up with the extra demands of electric starting. When used with in a current regulating system, it gives good service, but throwing a voltage only regulator, even the Bosch on it is a recipe for disaster. As Rubone mentioned earlier, Harley set the regulators for lower voltages to minimize this threat.
DD

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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#14

Post by nan00k » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:32 am

the solid state regulator I've looked at from a reputable manufacturer is a 12v 100 watts unit so by my reckoning that is 8.3 amp draw on the CE 65A generator which is below the specified 10amp max for the 65A without danger of frying it.

what I don't get is the spec' for the 65A states it can put out anywhere between 20 - 30 amps so that would fry the regulator or does it mean that it will draw 8.3A and charge to a max ' of 12v then cut out so the 12v battery would never be fully charged to 13.8V or whatever a healthy battery charge is?

Am I missing something here?

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Re: Cycle Electric Generator

#15

Post by Frankenstein » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:32 pm

Very unlikely that the regulator will limit itself to 8.3 amps. It's heat that will destroy electronics. So, most likely it will attempt to pass more than the safe current until it gets hot enough to fry itself. They leave it up to you to see that it isn't put in a dangerous situation :D
Here's how it goes down: The regulator is set to a specific voltage that will top off a battery, say 13.8V. As the battery charges its voltage goes up. The difference in voltage between the regulator set voltage and the battery's lessens, so the current draw goes down. When the voltage difference is high, the electrons run out of the generator trying to fill the empty battery. With a 65A this might be as much as the listed 20-30 amps. As the battery fills and the voltage difference gets smaller, the flow lessens. Think of the water in two buckets at different levels analogy. The flow lessens as the difference in levels lessens.
So, yes, with a low battery your 100w 8.3amp regulator will try to pass as much current as the generator can make. For a brief time, it will probably do so, then Puff, the smoke comes out, and your regulator won't work any more.
Interesting "fact" that most people don't realize. All those electronic components, transistors, integrated circuits, diodes, etc, have smoke inside them. That's what makes them work. Once you let the smoke out, they quit :D :D
DD

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