Why did this 58 FL get parked?

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hplhd
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#226

Post by hplhd » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:28 am

John, do you need a white or a black grip for your handlebars? I might have a white one.



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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#227

Post by PanPal » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:14 pm

Thanks Rich but I would be looking for a black one with the spiral installed for the throttle side and a black seat. A buddy has a box of grips with spirals and told me one time if I was going to get grips, I should just exchange with another assembled grip rather than take the chance of destroying a good old part or spend all that time removing the grip from the spiral. I kind of like one of each on this bike for now.

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#228

Post by PanPal » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:36 pm

The saddle bags are on and secured now. The gas tank shut off assembly lined up well and operates smoothly. Now to find out whether or not it really shuts off the fuel. The gas cap vents are clear and venting properly. The gas tanks are shimmed to keep from stressing the mounts and installed. I need to adjust the speedometer and ignition switch a bit tonight. When I tighten down the dash cover it binds a bit at the bottom of the ignition switch and makes it stiff to operate, but the lights illuminate the gen and oil glass nice and bright when the switch is on. The HD 3 – 4 plugs came in yesterday so I will run these and save the Autolite plugs for later. Sure would like some recommendations on a gubber to hold a bird cage screen in the horn if anyone has suggestions??? I also have 2 mirrors pictured below. Is either one of these mirrors more or less correct or period correct for this bike?
Things to do before trying to start.

Add oil to tank and transmission
install tank to strainer fuel line and tighten the strainer to the linkert
Put gas in the tank
Tighten the tappet screen screw
Tighten the timing plug

Gap and test plugs for spark and install plugs
Flash the generator

Other work to be done after it starts.

Straighten handlebars a little more. The throttle side grip end needs to be tweaked outward a bit to match the timer side grip.
Install tank emblems
Install OE clutch plates and half plate and readjust the clutch.
Tighten master cylinder cap
Install air filter
Bolt the seat back on
Make and install 2 riser studs and acorn nuts
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panfryd
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#229

Post by panfryd » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:50 am

hi gents, been a silent member for awhile now never posted prior to this i wanted to tell panpal in particular how much i have enjoyed his incredibly entertaining and informative post has been for me just wonderful. better than a great novel. and too id like to say thanks to all you guys who regularly contribute. im blown away by the knowledge and insights. i have a few bikes and i will have my hands full maintaining them. a '38 flahead which is basically a pile of parts, a '56 pan partial which will soon be the focus of my attention, a very complete '60 pan i recently purchased, and an '04 sporty ive had since then . so ill most likely be asking some questions in the future this is such a great site thanks, bob [panfryd]

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#230

Post by PanPal » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:27 pm

What went right? What went wrong?
Since my buddy was coming to visit with his girlfriend Saturday and my wife knew the plan was to try to start this bike, she knew we would all be in the shop a while and wanted room to put out munchies for the company. So instead of prepping the 58 for start up Friday night and what time I could sneak away from helping clean the house Saturday, I was putting crap away in the garage. Every flat surface was covered in miscellaneous parts, hardware, and tools. I was able to clear the floor and 4 flat surfaces, then blew the garage out before company came. Wow, It’s pretty nice walking into a more organized and cleaned shop!
I didn’t have my punch list with me that I wrote in the previous post and we started with putting a couple quarts of oil in the oil tank. Then gapped the 3 – 4 plugs to .028 and installed these. I had to squeeze the spark plug caps a bit to get a tighter connection when installing them on the plugs. We added a couple gallons of gas to the right gas tank. The gas crossed over nicely to the left tank and evened the level in both tanks. The shut off held gas from dripping with the gas line still not installed. The rubbers in the gas line nuts looked good with no cracks so we didn’t bother to cut new rubbers for the line nuts. We installed the gas line from the tank to the strainer. We tightened up the tappet screen cap and the timing plug. I pulled up a quick video on flashing the generator and we polarized the generator from the battery to the armature. Next we installed the gas line. I opened the gas shut off and watched to see if the Linkert was going to overflow to see if I needed to tap the bowl. Looked over the bike and it looked like it was taking a piss 2 feet out from the kickstand. The gas line had a hole. I took a small piece of gas line and split it, then wrapped it around the gas line and put a small hose clamp on to seal the hole. Opened the shut off again and it was dribbling from my band aid patch and a second later it started pissing a couple inches back from another spot on the gas line. Off came the gas line and we cut a 6 inch pitted section out of the middle of the line, installed a section of rubber gas line and clamped on both ends. This time there were no leaks and the Linkert didn’t overflow. A couple of prime kicks and one or 2 ignition on kicks and it fired up for a few seconds with noisy valves. Second try I noticed the oil light went out as I kicked then would come back on if I waited a few seconds. It fired up again for about 10 seconds and the valves began to quiet down before it stalled. It starts very easily. I have only been able to conform that the oil and generator lights go out when it starts, but it has not run long enough to conform oil returning to the tank. I can’t yet tell if it is when I open the choke fully, when I fully advance the timer, if it starves for gas, or I lose spark. I will double check where the low speed needle is and I plan to loosen the strainer and check to make sure I get steady fuel flow. It has started About 6 times now and the last time it started sounding pretty consistent right up until it dies and it ran for about 20 seconds or so before it died. My buddy took a video, but I’m not having much luck getting it to play on my computer, much less trying to post it. One thing I realized this morning on my way to work was I never filled the transmission with oil. It didn’t run long, and I doubt anything starts to tighten up and stall the bike, but I need to add oil tonight and make a new gas line to replace the rig up I have set up for now.


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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#231

Post by PanPal » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:47 pm

Have confirmed good gas flow from the gas tank to and through the strainer at the seat for the carburetor. I also removed the bale wire and clip on the circuit breaker and worked the clip then positioned it so the opening in the clip has the timer wire passing between the opening. The timer works much smoother now. Getting the bale wire reinstalled with the horn in the way was pretty interesting but well worth the effort. The seat is back on and I spent some time getting the handlebars straightened a bit. I removed the dash and re positioned the speedometer and ignition switch and now the dash screws down tight and the ignition switch has no bind. I cleaned the copper mesh air cleaner element and oiled it with Marvels mystery oil. This was installed during the video the administrators were able to attach a link to in the above post. I am told you may or may not have sound depending on the browser used to play the video. It works when I click on it, but may not for others. The air filter is back off until the new gas line is installed. I attempted to tap the rivet inserts for the tank emblems with a 6-32 tap, however the inserts spin when I try to tap them. I even tried a drop of super glue to keep them from spinning while I tap and they still want to spin. 6-32 fits through the hole made for rivets in the tank emblem and the round head fits in the counter bore in the emblems. If I were to tap the tank mounts to 8-32, I would have to modify the emblems as well. Not what I want to do modifying 2 OE parts, so I’m still trying to find a good way to get these mounted. Plan to pick up some tubing today to make a new steel gas line. Everything happens so fast when first starting the bike, but I wonder if it dies as I attempt to flip the choke off after starting. Still need to check where I have the low speed needle set before I start it again. I’m open to other suggestions on why it would start so easy but stall shortly after its running. The transmission is now filled with oil. I’m sure there will be some bugs to work out, but I’m very happy with how well it started and having the generator light go out was a good sign things are working correctly.

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#232

Post by FL54 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:39 pm

Good work PanPal. I, like many others have been watching your progress with interest. You've undertaken a monumental task and your persistence is to be admired. Must be very gratifying for you to hear her fire up after all the hard work you've done. Keep up the good work and I'm sure you'll get her dialed in soon.

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#233

Post by Andygears » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:16 pm

Fantastic job', and a classic thread to be reread by many in years to come! That is if they're interested in doing things correctly.

On your emblem mounts, as an old machinist I can say 6-32 is the most troublesome to cut. The 32 TPI depth of the thread is large compared to the root diameter of the thread. But maybe you can try this: if the holes are not too big already, try tapping it 5-40. The thread depth is much shallower and should cut easier. Also coat the tap with a little anti-seize to further defeat the resistance. Screws can be found that will work. Or if the holes are too large that the 5-40 does not grip sufficiently, retap the holes 6-40! While not as common as 5-40, the 6-40 screws and tap can be sourced from Mc-Master Carr and would be hidden when the emblems are installed.

Your patience is enviable, and Congratulations on a job well done!

Andygears

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#234

Post by PanPal » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:15 pm

So the bike would start easy but only run for 15 to 30 seconds before it died. I pulled off the old coil with old spark plug wires and put a working V twin coil on that I had removed from my 59. The bike now runs as long as I leave it on. I check oil flow return to the tank and there is a steady flow returning. I had the low speed needle set 5 full turns out to start and I had to adjust it in 2 to 3 turns before the idle increased and sounded better. I am getting valve tapping when its running. I checked the pushrods and both exhaust tappets are not pumping up. Intake tappets are pumping up. I changed out both exhaust tappets and ran it for about 1 minute and a half and they still did not pump up. I pulled the tappet screen and kicked it over a few times and I get a puddle of oil forming at the bottom of the screen hole. Should oil be squirting in there or does just filling a bit from a couple kicks sound right? I'm almost certain the rollers are installed with both holes facing the center of the tappet block because I have done this incorrectly before and had a hydraulic not pump up. Any other thoughts on this before I go taking blocks out and possibly the oil pump back off?

Forgot to add, I did install the stock 3 1/2 clutch plates and 3 steels, and the emblems are now secured to the gas tank with 6-32 round head screws.

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#235

Post by RooDog » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:08 pm

How about swapping the hydraulic inserts from the "noisy" exhaust with the "quiet" intakes? If the noise follows the inserts, then you have found what parts are bad, if not, the you'll have to dig deeper. Another thought is to tighten the offending lifters down to zero lash, like you would do solids and see how that works out, maybe after doing the position swap. The inserts are not married to the tappet bodies, only the insert guts may not be swapped between inserts. You do know how to bleed the inserts down with a toothpick or paperclip, don't you?
....Best Wishes.....RooDog....

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#236

Post by PanPal » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:50 pm

RooDog, Yes, I know how to bleed them down. The current exhaust inserts are new ones. I had a spare set on hand and the old ones pass the test in the book, so I don't think the inserts were the problem. I guess I'll try to start it again for a minute or so to see if they need a little more time to pump up, then take the blocks back off and do some testing if they don't. I really want to figure out why its not pumping up.

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#237

Post by panhead_kicker » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:34 pm

Hi Panpal,
The test procedure for hydraulic units per the service manual can be misleading. When you press the piston down into the cylinder, are you compressing the spring?

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#238

Post by PanPal » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:52 am

Well... Ran it for another minute and I don't like it. Opened the exhaust push rod tubes and no oil in there. I don't want to starve the heads, so I'm going back in again. Good troubleshooters cut the circuit in half and have some direction. The problem for me is knowing what I should expect from the pump to the tappet screen now and knowing easy tests on this feed circuit to know where it is and where it's not. I can see this easier I'd like to test instead of removing the oil pump or taking head off, or tappet blocks out. The oil light goes out while kicking and oil returns to the tank when running but oil isn't making it everywhere it needs to.

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#239

Post by Panacea » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:10 am

Sounds like the tappets may be facing the wrong way, If the flat that travels down the side of the lifter is not facing the other lifter in the block, it can't share oil thru the lower hole in the bore that goes to the other bore. Good luck Hope you find the problem...Mike

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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#240

Post by RooDog » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:50 pm

How about removing the tappet screen and blowing in compressed air to determine if the passages are open to the lifters? Or reverse blowing brake clean from the lifter blocks back to the tappet screen hole?
...RooDog...

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