1962 Panhead Issues

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Rabbus
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1962 Panhead Issues

#1

Post by Rabbus » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:39 pm

Hello all! I am new to this forum and new to the world of Panhead. I recently inherited a 1962 Panhead from my late father that is in a state of restoration. Looks very pretty with shiny paint and lots of chrome, but the deeper I go into this bike, the more 'issues' im finding. So, the bike hadnt been fired in over 25 years when i received it, and was told it needed a battery, fluids, and shes good to go. So i put a battery in (has been upgraded to 12v), engine oil, transmission oil, and spent a whole day kicking! Eventually she fired and my new obsession was confirmed. So now after replacing the brakes and rear wheel cylinder (seized), i was ready to take it on its maiden voyage, and now it wont stay running for very long. just dies after about 1 minute of running. It restarts fairly quickly, 1 or 2 kicks, runs for 10 seconds, dies. Then it wont restart until it sits for a good hour or more. Im noticing the ignition coil is getting VERY hot. I can see the breaker points sparking when kicking over but havent done a spark check at plug wires. Of coarse im under the impression that all these components are new (screamin eagle spark plugs and taylor super yellow plug wires)....but.... 25 years ago! Ive messed around with fuel and verified it is getting to the carb, accelerator pump squirts fuel when throttle pulled. Ive ordered a new coil because it should not get that hot that fast. Could some of this be related to the bike just sitting for so long and not being run? its only ran aprox. less than 1 hour in total since its first fire, but i cant keep it running to get a good road test in. OH and i pulled the primary cover off because it was smoking like crazy, full of oil, cleaned it out and fired bike, clutch hub seems to have a wicked wobble to it and makes loud grinding noise when clutch lever pulled in! AND when clicked into gear the bike pulls forward like clutch is starting to engage. i can hold it back but should it be doing that or is something out of adjustment? I know this is a lot but all these things are kinda holding me back from getting a good ride in where the real diagnostics can take place haha. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!



Mark44
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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#2

Post by Mark44 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:10 pm

You posted a laundry list of problems. I'll put in my two cents on a few of them.

Engine dies after about 10 seconds -- This could be a symptom of insufficient fuel flow. Detach the gas line from the carb and check that gas is running freely. If not, check for a blockage somewhere in the fuel line or in the fuel petcock. If there is a good flow, check the carb. You mentioned an accel. pump, so you're not running a Linkert (I don't know what year HD switched from Linkerts to Tillotson or whatever). In any case, since the bike sat for 25 years, there's a good chance that the innards of the carb are plugged up with varnish or otherwise not working correctly.

Noise when you disengage clutch -- possible failing/failed throwout bearing.

Clutch dragging -- Likely gunk on clutch plates causing them to drag against each other instead of slipping by each other when clutch is partially engaged. You mentioned that the primary was full of oil, which could have come from the engine or transmission or both. The clutch in your bike is a dry clutch, so the primary being full of oil might have caused the friction plates to swell up in the parts that were submerged.

Sparking points -- Sounds like the condensor is bad.

Hot coil -- Don't know, but if the condersor is bad, maybe that is contributing to the problem.

I'm sure others who are more knowledgeable than I am will chime in...

Good luck on getting this Pan back in good running shape!

Rabbus
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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#3

Post by Rabbus » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:56 pm

Hi mark44, thanks for the response! So it’s got a S&S super E carb, fuel flow is good at the carb when line disconnected. To my understanding the carb was completely gone through and gas had never gone through it before I got the bike so I’m assuming it’s clean inside but I will pull it apart to double check. I should clarify the primary was not FULL of oil, just a little river in the bottom that I cleaned out. I think I need to adjust the primary chain Oiler as it spits quite a bit of oil out when engine is running. The clutches appear to be dry but again, need to disassemble to verify. Could the wobble of the clutch hub have anything to do with the noise when disengaged? I’ve read of bent main shafts, worn bearing surfaces, or worn clutch hubs. Man I could go on about this thing. I also notice when I’m rolling the engine over to find TDC for the big starting kick a lot of air and some smoke is coming out of the breather in the primary, is this normal? Thanks

Mark44
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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#4

Post by Mark44 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:50 pm

Rabbus wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:56 pm
Hi mark44, thanks for the response! So it’s got a S&S super E carb, fuel flow is good at the carb when line disconnected. To my understanding the carb was completely gone through and gas had never gone through it before I got the bike so I’m assuming it’s clean inside but I will pull it apart to double check.
My thought is fuel starvation, but since you mentioned you can see the points sparking and the coil getting hot, that could indicate a bad condensor/failing coil problem, so I wouldn't bet all my money on a fuel problem. If the carb turns out to be functioning properly, it sounds like an electrical problem. Not mentioned before, but you should also check for a vacuum leak in the intake tract at some point.
Rabbus wrote: I should clarify the primary was not FULL of oil, just a little river in the bottom that I cleaned out. I think I need to adjust the primary chain Oiler as it spits quite a bit of oil out when engine is running. The clutches appear to be dry but again, need to disassemble to verify.
Another possibility for the clutch drag when you put the transmission into gear is that the spring tension adjusting nuts aren't adjusted evenly, which puts uneven pressure on the clutch disks.
Rabbus wrote: Could the wobble of the clutch hub have anything to do with the noise when disengaged? I’ve read of bent main shafts, worn bearing surfaces, or worn clutch hubs.
That's a real possibility. The bearing in the clutch hub could be bad, which would account for the noise and the wobble. Or it could be a bad main shaft bearing.
Rabbus wrote:Man I could go on about this thing. I also notice when I’m rolling the engine over to find TDC for the big starting kick a lot of air and some smoke is coming out of the breather in the primary, is this normal?
If you're rolling the engine over, and it's cold, I don't know where the smoke would be coming from. As far as air, because both pistons move up and down in unison, they push a lot of air around.

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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#5

Post by Doc37W » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:58 pm

Rabbus, Since you are taking out the clutch plates, you should check what is causing the wobble on the clutch hub, too. It may be too tall of a key, not allowing the hub to fully seat on the mainshaft. Get a large fender washer that will cover the hole in the spring plate collar with the right center hole for the adjustment screw. Remove the clutch locknut, install the washer, and screw the nut back on the adjustment screw. Tighten untill the three nuts on the collar are slightly loose, then remove the nuts. The collar, springs and pressure plate will now come off the studs as a unit, making it easy to put back on when it comes time to reassemble the clutch. The clutch plates & steel plates can then be removed. Then, you will have to remove the front sprocket, chain, & clutch basket together. After that, there is a locktab you need to fold back on the hub nut washer before you take the nut off. The nut itself is a LEFTHAND nut (Righty loosen, lefty tighten). If the hub falls off in your hand, you have found the problem. If not, you will need a hub puller. (Good thing to buy and retain, easy to find). Please let us know what you find. Doc

Rabbus
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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#6

Post by Rabbus » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:37 pm

Thanks Mark44 and Doc37W, I will pull the clutch apart and see if i can locate the cause of the wobble and possibly the noise too. Ive ordered a new coil to try and i will look into replacing the condenser as well. Ive included a couple pics just to show you what im workin with! Thanks again and i will reply as soon as i have an update.
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Excalibur
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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#7

Post by Excalibur » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:39 pm

Hot coil: It could be the wrong coil with too much current draw for points. About 2.5amps draw is about right for 12v system. Correct coil is about 5 ohms.

Rabbus
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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#8

Post by Rabbus » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:51 pm

Hey Excalibur, the coil on this bike is from a 90’s sportster apparently. That’s what Harley told me when I called to order one using the part number I found on the coil (31614-83) and I guess this coil has a 3 ohm resistance. Think that’s too low?

Rabbus
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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#9

Post by Rabbus » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:54 am

Soooo, I’m havin a hard time breaking the crank nut loose. (I know this one is lefty loosy) I’ve tried reinstalling the clutch, putting it in gear, holding the brakes, nut won’t budge. I’ve tried putting an extension between the gear tooth and the chain and waiting till it binds but I’m cranking on the nut and it’s not busting loose, I don’t want to damage the sprocket or the chain, any ideas on how to lock the motor?

Mark44
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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#10

Post by Mark44 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:09 am

Rabbus wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:54 am
Soooo, I’m havin a hard time breaking the crank nut loose. (I know this one is lefty loosy) I’ve tried reinstalling the clutch, putting it in gear, holding the brakes, nut won’t budge. I’ve tried putting an extension between the gear tooth and the chain and waiting till it binds but I’m cranking on the nut and it’s not busting loose, I don’t want to damage the sprocket or the chain, any ideas on how to lock the motor?
Impact wrench? Some guys use a flat bar wedged between a bottom tooth on the sprocket and a tooth at the top of the clutch basket ring gear. If you don't use an impact wrench, you want to have a cheater bar on your breaker bar. Also, you might try giving the cheater bar a good whack with a hammer. It's kind of the same idea as the impact wrench -- giving the nut a quick impact.

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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#11

Post by Bosheff » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:12 am

To lock the engine, pull the plugs, roll the engine til ya got one of the pistons down in the cylinder, fill the cylinder with rope (a couple of feet will do) then roll the wheels till she stops. You might want to tie a knot on one end so the rope doesn't go into the plug hole....bosheff

Rabbus
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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#12

Post by Rabbus » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:21 am

Mark, I’ve got no air at home unfortunately, all hand tools here! Me thinks I’m gonna need to bring some tools home from work haha. Bosheff, filling the cylinder with rope, now there’s one I’ve never heard! But not a bad idea! Thanks guys

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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#13

Post by Doc37W » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:36 am

Rabbus, Engine nut is a RIGHTHAND nut (righty tighty, lefty loosey). About 100 ft/lbs torque on it. CLUTCH nut is the lefthand nut. About 50 ft/lbs on that. Only 4 nuts or screws on a Big Twin is lefthanded. You should order a 31609-65 coil for a 12volt system. Doc
Last edited by Doc37W on Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Excalibur
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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#14

Post by Excalibur » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:37 am

Rabbus wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:51 pm
Hey Excalibur, the coil on this bike is from a 90’s sportster apparently. That’s what Harley told me when I called to order one using the part number I found on the coil (31614-83) and I guess this coil has a 3 ohm resistance. Think that’s too low?
That would be a coil for electronic ignition. Too much current draw for points. At 3ohms it will have 4amps draw. The points will be suffering at that.. Also the coil will overheat which is what you're experiencing. Just ask for a "points" coil and double check it's around the 5ohms mark.

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Re: 1962 Panhead Issues

#15

Post by Excalibur » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:45 am

I hadn't heard of the rope trip either. Haha! If you go to do it, ensure piston is on the compression stroke, else valves could get bent.

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