WL WR questions.

360º oiling pinion shaft

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thepigstye
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WL WR questions.

#1

Post by thepigstye » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:52 pm

Was the WR pinion shaft with the 360º oiling groove a worth while effort on the WR''s ? I remember reading some where one time that if ya plan to use a constant oiling pinion shaft in a WL, you had to plug some hole in the cam cover, but I can't find that article now. Anyone here know? Also I got a really nice original WR pinion shaft that I would be interested in trading for an equal condition original 47 -later WL lifter block and lifter if anyone is interested



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Re: WL WR questions.

#2

Post by Frankenstein » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:37 am

There's a bleed off passage that taps into the area at the end of the pinion bushing pocket. That would probably need to be blocked. Haven't seen the wr shaft, but I assume it feeds from the end of the shaft, not from the side as the stock wl.
DD

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Re: WL WR questions.

#3

Post by RUBONE » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:25 am

The full oiling WR shaft is not end feed, but rather has a groove around its circumference allowing oil to flow full time. Lots of oiling tricks were being experimented with at the time and this allowed constant oiling. However, to go along with it there was the large diameter crankpin and rollers as well as grooves to allow the oil out. H-D found out with the KR that constant oil of too much volume could be a detriment as well, causing hydraulic lock of the rollers and skidding, destroying lower ends. That is why the KR rollers got even larger, to slow roller speed and allow more oil to escape (notches in the rods to let oil out). Also things like 1/4 speed pumps, polished internals to quickly drain along with knife edge scrapers. Excess oil in the rods could also be expelled with the notches to allow more oil slung on the lower cylinder walls. Roller bottom ends need only constant low volume oil, not pressure or big volume. It is the nature of rollers versus plain bearing engines.

thepigstye
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Re: WL WR questions.

#4

Post by thepigstye » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:38 am

RUBONE wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:25 am
The full oiling WR shaft is not end feed, but rather has a groove around its circumference allowing oil to flow full time. Lots of oiling tricks were being experimented with at the time and this allowed constant oiling. However, to go along with it there was the large diameter crankpin and rollers as well as grooves to allow the oil out. H-D found out with the KR that constant oil of too much volume could be a detriment as well, causing hydraulic lock of the rollers and skidding, destroying lower ends. That is why the KR rollers got even larger, to slow roller speed and allow more oil to escape (notches in the rods to let oil out). Also things like 1/4 speed pumps, polished internals to quickly drain along with knife edge scrapers. Excess oil in the rods could also be expelled with the notches to allow more oil slung on the lower cylinder walls. Roller bottom ends need only constant low volume oil, not pressure or big volume. It is the nature of rollers versus plain bearing engines.
Thanks for that info RUBONE. It makes a lot of sense

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Re: WL WR questions.

#5

Post by Frankenstein » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:38 pm

Thanks for the enlightenment re groove vs end feed on the WR.
I think you hit on the extra oiling via the crank pin, mainly to get more lube to the cylinder walls. The squirters added to K models seems to substantiate this. Also keep in mind re the 1/4 speed oil pump, the 72 sporty pump puts out 8 times the oil volume of the W series vane pump. Divide by 1/4 and you still get 2 times the oil from that racing setup that the vane pump supplies. It's also my belief, (just one man's opinion) that the 1/4 speed pump was an attempt to cut parasitic power losses in a race engine, and might not be the best philosophy to pursue in a street engine, where longevity is a sought for goal.
Just saying, it's a possibility.
There are voluminous studies of roller "skidding" or sliding (two different phenenom) out there, one in particular from the wind turbine industry, that seems to indicate that non synchronous roller movement in a roller bearing appears in the unloaded phase of it's rotation and that a multiplicity of factors are involved, not just volume of oil impeding rotation. Further, non synchronized rotation may or may not be damaging, depending on the circumstances causing it.
I realize HD racing motors were thoroughly examined and damaging scoring was discovered, but I'm just saying analysis techniques have progressed and there's some interesting reading out there on the subject for those interested.
My interest is strictly in using oil as a coolant and keeping BTSV pistons from heat damage.
I've since changed the thrust of my efforts to combustion chamber improvement to control piston temperatures.
Just a Sunday morning spout off, treat it as you please :-)
DD

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Re: WL WR questions.

#6

Post by kitabel » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:03 pm

The 1939-* WLDR, WR pin rollers were 3/16" (smaller than the WL): 1-1/4" pin OD, 1-5/8" rod ID.
I've seen a radial groove in the 45 pinion bushing to give full time supply to the side-feed transfer hole, and the soft plug in the shaft end drilled.
I agree, IMHO non-synchronous rotation of the pin rollers (and the rubbing speed difference in plain bearing engines) is part of the problem. I'm sure there's math for the actual speeds (rotation plus and minus oscillation) based on roller OD, radius of gyration (pin offset), and rod ratio (which determines the rod's inclination as any point of pin rotation), but I can't find anything that I can understand.

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