Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

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Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#1

Post by parts » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:16 pm

Hi everybody,
I have read many of the previous "Oil Sumping" threads while trying to deal with severe oil sumping issues with my 1955 Pan.
I have lapped the check valve seat in the oil pump and replaced the ball and spring several times without success. I am running the stock oil pump on a stock engine.
I am considering installing a manual shut off valve on the feed line from the oil tank to pump. I am aware of the dire consequences of forgetting to turn on the oil. I know from reading here that some folks have installed a valve like this. I would like to know exactly what valve others have used and any pros and cons.
There seem to be many choices, but some considerations I think would be temperature rating of the materials in the valve and seat and the inside diameter of the passageway thru the valve so enough oil gets to the pump. Other considerations would be the fittings required to connect the valve to the steel oil line.
So, what valve have you used? And where did you get it? Photos of your set-up would be very helpful.
Thanks, Tom from Mass.



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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#2

Post by parts » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:56 pm

I would like to add.....I bought a brass ball valve from Grainger that is sized for 3/8" tubing with compression fittings. This seemed like it would be perfect, but the hole thru the ball inside is slightly less than 1/4", so I am afraid it will restrict the flow. The inner diameter of the oil line tubing on the bike is about 5/16" inner diameter.
This is why I am asking my question, so I don't keep buying different valves only to find they won't work.
Thanks, Tom

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#3

Post by RooDog » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:02 pm

I am assuming that this is an overnight or longer parked time thing, and not happening during the course of a day's ride. If it is then you do in fact have a real problem that needs attention.
The only real consequence is that your oil light will come back on in short order and you will have to stop what you are doing and turn the valve back on. Temperature should not be an issue as the oil rarely will be hot from an overnight rest and when shut off after a day's riding should not exceed 200*, and never anywhere near 250*. Install some fittings made from cut off Harley hard oil lines and then rubber oil hose with the valve in line. You would want the inside of a ball valve to match the hose id at about 5/16-3/8". I used a ball style valve but don't remember a brand name....
...RooDog....
PS: Don't over fill the oil tank above the full mark on the dipstick....
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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#4

Post by RooDog » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:05 pm

parts wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:56 pm
I would like to add.....I bought a brass ball valve from Grainger that is sized for 3/8" tubing with compression fittings. This seemed like it would be perfect, but the hole thru the ball inside is slightly less than 1/4", so I am afraid it will restrict the flow. The inner diameter of the oil line tubing on the bike is about 5/16" inner diameter.
This is why I am asking my question, so I don't keep buying different valves only to find they won't work.
Thanks, Tom
I don't know for a fact if 1/4 would be adequate or not, but I wouldn't use it myself, 5/16, maybe, because that is the ID of the fittings, but check your's out to be sure....
....RooDog.....

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#5

Post by parts » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:02 pm

Thanks RooDog, Yes, the sumping problem is when it sits for a few days, or weeks, then on start-up it pukes out about a quart of oil onto the driveway, unless I take off real quick, then it leaves a trail for 1/8 mile. It holds oil fine after the initial clearing out of the crankcase from sitting and sumping.
I have a friend with an old Indian with a similar problem. He drains the crankcase before riding. I would do that too, but on the Pan the drain plug is such a pain to reinstall being so close to the frame tube.
I agree that a ball valve is the way to go, I just need to find one with the right inside diameter.
Tom

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#6

Post by ozwick86 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:27 am

I have a Swagelok Valve on my gas line. Here is a link to Swagelok's site. Go to Products / Valves / Ball One-Piece Instrumentation Ball Valve (40G and 40 Series)

www.swagelok.com/en/product/Valves/Ball

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#7

Post by george48pan » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:47 pm

The valve is called a "full port" ball valve. This will have the full size of the pipe or hose connection.

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#8

Post by Frankenstein » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:57 am

ball valve.JPG
ball valve.JPG (45.8 KiB) Viewed 297 times
Here's the ball valve I used, from McMaster. Has a 1/4" passage, which has worked just fine with my stock pan pump, and both the Sportster pump I had been using on my BTSV and the gererotor pump I'm presently using on same Flathead. The sportster pump pushes 1 qt per minute, free flow, less of course, when installed on a motor.
No starvation issues, and the big handle is easy to operate with gloves.
part no 4912K11.
DD

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#9

Post by Excalibur » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:53 am

Would an anti-drain valve work for you? Here is one example of such but there are others around:
http://www.britcycle.com/Products/Antidrainvalve.htm
They are automatic so no worries about forgetting to turn on.
I haven't used one so no 1st hand experience.

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#10

Post by Robbo » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:09 am

I know it is a bit high tech for a pan but could you just put on an electric solenoid shut off valve at the tank that is open when main power is on, ie wired to the ignition on swith. Valves don't need big voltage to operate so 6v power supply wouldn't be a problem. Quick internet search points to a 6v fuel shut off valve for a '32 Ford as one possibility.

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#11

Post by Frankenstein » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:38 am

tried one, didn't work for me. (anti sump valve) Maybe just the wrong one. experimented with changing the springing on the internal ball in the pump, anything that would stop the seep would cause the pump to cavitate :cry: Tried all the lapping, pounding, burnishing, etc over the years. Have followed Cotten's travails over the years with the problem. Suspect the quest for a knife edged seat is the answer, (highest lb/sq inch pressure achieved with the narrowest seat, just like all valves). Gettin' too old to keep messin' around :D And that extra oil in the sump makes it harder to kick to boot. Maybe the switch to milti-vis oil hasn't helped either.
"Just my highly opinionated opinion, your results may vary"
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''

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#12

Post by Larry » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:54 pm

Why not change the pump?

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#13

Post by parts » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:13 pm

Hi again,
Thanks for all the suggestions. I have considered replacing the pump and I will probably do that if I can find a NOS pump. I am reluctant to use an S&S or shovel pump because there are problems related to those as well. Some require drilling on the gear case and I do not want to modify the bike like that.
The "full port" info is helpful, the valve I got from Grainger was a "standard port", hence the small thru diameter bore. I may try a "full port" valve and see what it looks like.
The "anti-drain" valve also looks interesting. I did not know that some of the Brit bikes had the sumping problem as well.
Anyway, I will report back on what I end up doing and will describe the set-up and specs with photos.
Thanks again, Tom

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#14

Post by RooDog » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:40 pm

Just some thought for the general reader:

Replacing the oil pump with another one may or may not be any better than what you already have.
Likewise for a "new" aftermarket pump.

An NO$ pump may be difficult to find and be quite expensive.

I solved the symptoms of sumping on my aftermarket Evo engine, with a Jim's pump, by using the head breathers rather than the bottom breather.

Newer Harleys addressed the problem by placing the oil reservoir down low, beneath the transmission, taking gravity out of the equation. I suspect the MoCo could not come up with a workable solution, but of course, they would not admit to such a thing....

My 1950 Panny with a stock iron body pump does not have a sumping problem (knock on wood).
...RooDog....

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#15

Post by awander » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:13 pm

Just curious-how many of us have the sumping problem? I've only owned 2 pans, but neither had the problem...

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