Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

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Buddhahoodvatoloco
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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#16

Post by Buddhahoodvatoloco » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:06 pm

Man I have had a bunch, bunch of pans, knucks, bt flatties, some sumped, some didn't.
awander wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:13 pm
Just curious-how many of us have the sumping problem? I've only owned 2 pans, but neither had the problem...



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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#17

Post by nmaineron » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:13 pm

You could always go steam punk and use a furnace valve used on kerosene oil lines for home boilers, which are made for 3/8 copper tubing.

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#18

Post by nmaineron » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:24 pm


packrat48
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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#19

Post by packrat48 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:32 am

Have only had two, neither had this issue. If a clean rebuild of the pump does not fix, then what is actually causing it?

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#20

Post by RooDog » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:37 pm

packrat48 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:32 am
Have only had two, neither had this issue. If a clean rebuild of the pump does not fix, then what is actually causing it?
One possible cause is Trash. If you are not running an oil filter then you can expect trash to constantly be recirculating through your system and quite likely a piece will make its way into the oil pump and prevent that check valve from seating.
....RooDog....

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#21

Post by FL54 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:10 pm

awander wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:13 pm
Just curious-how many of us have the sumping problem? I've only owned 2 pans, but neither had the problem...
Have one Pan and several shovels and I guess I've been lucky as none of them have sumped. The Pan sat for three years while I was in Alaska in the 70's and it still didn't sump.

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#22

Post by Frankenstein » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:18 pm

As Roo said, HD never satisfactorily solved the problem, so they moved the tank! you're trying to seal on a very narrow seat, and a piece of hard debris comes through and the ball seats on it, you're done. As I said earlier, I experimented with incrementally heavier springs (checking their strength with scales), and couldn't find an answer that way.
DD

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#23

Post by dcmc » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:26 pm

Have you considered a Viton ball ? Mcmaster carr may have them in the correct diameter.

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#24

Post by Excalibur » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:25 am

My Pan can sit for many weeks without any sign of sumping, consequently I haven't had to study the check valve in detail. Fact is it hasn't been out since assembly 3-1/2 years ago.

Some thoughts:
Compare the dynamics of the check valve to a carb needle valve. We demand a very high degree of performance from those. Indeed the seats are narrow and I was reminded of it when talking recently to a friend re Indian Linkerts. He routinely restores needle valve seats by using an end mill He cleans them up to a sharp edge and seats the needle valve onto that.

I wondered if the check valve could effectively be bench tested by using an appropriate head of oil from above? The volume of oil passed could be measured over a set time and compared for improvement.

Hope this helps. Good luck

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#25

Post by Frankenstein » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:32 pm

Excalibur, exactly the test jig I used. Had part of an engine case and mounted oil pump to it, approximating the same head as exists on bike. Had a new, out of the box Vtwin pump, Shovel era aluminum pump, and a Flathead supply pump, ( BTSV timing cover for that one). Tried one of those burnishing tools I believe Resurrection made, as well as all the other remedies, plus the spring strength variants.
The viton ball interests me, might have enough conform-ability to maybe do the job. But then, it might be deformed by the spring's pressure and that portion might end up on the seat next time it settled. HD Tried a plunger at one point, ending up with a configuration not unlike a float valve, not satisfactory either.
Fortunately, if you do forget the valve on startup, the engine's not going to mind too much for a short while. Unless you're still running hydraulic lifters. I'd guess they'd let you know soon enough. :D
Not that I'd ever tell on him, but I know a guy who ran a highly modified 45 engined bike for 12 miles with no oil, burned out the rings, but no other observable ill effects. The oil pump key had sheared. That was 20yrs ago, still runs fine.
DD

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#26

Post by RooDog » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:04 pm

Not that I'd ever tell on him, but I know a guy who ran a highly modified 45 engined bike for 12 miles with no oil, burned out the rings, but no other observable ill effects. The oil pump key had sheared. That was 20yrs ago, still runs fine.
DD
[/quote]

Some years ago a buddy of mine called me one morning and asked what the red oil light meant. He proceeded to ride it two hundred miles with the OIL light on, covered with a piece of tape. His Evo engine ran fine and made it home OK, but when we tore it down we found the oil pump drive was busted, totally trashed. No oil flow at all. There was no other visible damage anywhere, but he went ahead an rebuilt it with an $&$ 89" stroker kit, 4-5/8" wheels, anyway. He was running Castrol GTX 20W-50 oil.
The point of this story is that oiling a Harley engine is not as critical as one would think, but best to keep 'em wet, anyway....
....RooDog....

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#27

Post by George Greer » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:52 pm

I don't know if this even works yet, but it is the pump that I am going to be using on my 58FL project. But it is a idea

I have made a "modified' check valve out of PEEK, and added a seal on the shaft by milling a recess pocket.

Here is the post:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15073

As I now will be getting the frame registry number stamped on the frame on Monday, I can finally put it all together.

George

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#28

Post by Don P » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:08 pm

Did you try lapping the ball seat in the pump? I was having the same problem, lapped the seat replaced the spring and ball and life was good

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#29

Post by Buddhahoodvatoloco » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:38 pm

Well did your Peek solve your problem..
George Greer wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:52 pm
I don't know if this even works yet, but it is the pump that I am going to be using on my 58FL project. But it is a idea

I have made a "modified' check valve out of PEEK, and added a seal on the shaft by milling a recess pocket.

Here is the post:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15073

As I now will be getting the frame registry number stamped on the frame on Monday, I can finally put it all together.

George

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Re: Oil Line Shut-Off Valve

#30

Post by parts » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:02 pm

You guys have been busy over the weekend! Thanks again for all the info. I don't know why mine sumps, but I now suspect that the seat area has become too wide due to the lapping I did and from the previous owners efforts. I hope there is no junk flowing around in my oil that would interfere with the ball seating properly. My pan has the external filter with the element made of that brown colored fiber stuff. I wonder if particles from that flilter can break loose? I used to have a 45 that also sumped...just lucky I guess.
The final solution may be to re-machine the seat to make the sharp edged seat, then lap that just a bit. I need to research the procedure. In the mean time I am going with the shut-off valve. I got one of the "REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT" flags so I don't forget. I will post the specs on the valve I get and photos of the installation. Tom

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