ULH CYLINDERS

Cylinder set sold by V-Twin

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Buddhahoodvatoloco
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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#16

Post by Buddhahoodvatoloco » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:12 am

Hilarious, but almost 100% near fact.. But still hilarious. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
RUBONE wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:44 am
just how many of these old Flathead engines are actually in existence needing new jugs?
All of them.... :shock:



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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#17

Post by RooDog » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:32 am

I, at one time, would have liked to have a Flathead Big Twin 'cause they are just too cool, and so many parts all the way up to some Evo pieces can be mix and matched to build most any kinda pitsa ride one would want. Hell, one could even build a rubber mounted 5-Speed Big Twin Side Valve FXRFH, an FHST, or a FLTSV Bagger Now, would that not cause some head scratching? Done right with paint & chrome would have their little pointy rubbie heads spinning.....
....RooDog.....

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#18

Post by RooDog » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:42 am

RUBONE wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:44 am
just how many of these old Flathead engines are actually in existence needing new jugs?
All of them.... :shock:
Robbie.
I e-mailed you several picture of my two tach drive ignition circuit breakers and got no response. WTF?

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#19

Post by RUBONE » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:03 am

RooDog wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:42 am
RUBONE wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:44 am
just how many of these old Flathead engines are actually in existence needing new jugs?
All of them.... :shock:
Robbie.
I e-mailed you several picture of my two tach drive ignition circuit breakers and got no response. WTF?
I was waiting for the prices on them you said you would send. No price, no interest....

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#20

Post by kitabel » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:32 am

Having read quite a few horror stories of U replica casting, including:
deck and base not parallel
Bore not 90 degrees to either one
different deck heights, both too tall
honing done with chain saw
gasket surface done with body grinder
guide holes eccentric to seats
nipples badly installed, mis-aligned
no base nut relief clearance
head bolts tapped oversize

IMHO buying the best you can find is actually cheaper - think of how much that work would cost to have a high quality machinist diagnose these errors and (when possible) correct them (assuming you discover them before assembling and starting the engine)?

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#21

Post by RooDog » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:54 am

Robbie....PM sent to your email addy....

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#22

Post by Larry » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:44 pm

ACF also offers cylinders. I wonder if they are the same as V-twin. Paul Freibus says they are cast in India and the finish machining is done in USA. This would allow Ted to say "Made in USA".

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#23

Post by chuckthebeatertruck » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:32 pm

One of the things to keep in mind is that many original cylinders can be saved for nearly the same cost as a replica set.

By this I mean the biggest issue we deal with on original cylinders are:
1) out of over bores
2) broken base flanges
3) valves sunk to the ends of the earth.

Well, on the over bore we can solve that with the application of nikasil -- and if that still isn't enough -- custom pistons or my favorite trick -- corvair pistons. Clark's corvair sells individual pistons and rings -- so you can even have two different sizes front to rear.

Broken base flanges - well, I've never tried to save those.

Sunken valves -- install seats or oversized valves.

In my world, unless the cylinder is actually broken in half -- it will get resurrected. I much prefer 75 year old foundry tech.

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#24

Post by chuckthebeatertruck » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:51 pm

RooDog wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:32 am
Hell, one could even build a rubber mounted 5-Speed Big Twin Side Valve FXRFH, an FHST, or a FLTSV Bagger Now, would that not cause some head scratching? Done right with paint & chrome would have their little pointy rubbie heads spinning.....
....RooDog.....
Oh, it has been done several times in recent years. I'm not sure how the ones I've seen have gotten stuffed into rubber frames, but I do know about some "older" frames that acquired BTSVs. One known associate managed to shoe horn the BTSV into a softy frame -- and even did the full electric start. Kinda looks like a modern Indian Chief . . .

The other stuffed one in some alphabet soup frame from the 90s, not sure which model. (I'm really, really bad on model designations past 1970).

They've got to be amongst the easiest to adapt motors because they are relatively compact for their displacement.

For my part, I slipped my 90" stroker into a 58-64 duo glide frame -- and then mixed and matched parts from 1939-1999. It's all HD except the front brake (triumph TLS), front brake lever/cable, and the rims. Otherwise, I just mixed and matched swap meet cast offs until I had a bike that fit me and is essentially a big old torque monster. Not winning a single race -- also not really caring. Not a single piece of my BTSV came together from the factory. I literally bought bits here and there off the $5, 10, 20 tarps at swap meets across the midwest. It actually went together with almost no fuss and looks like the BTSV is supposed to be in the swing arm frame. Go figure.

Today, just a handful of years later, the BTSV has been "rediscovered" by folks that have been priced out of some OHV models . . .and so the prices have risen accordingly. Not so long ago you could pick up BTSV motors with clean paperwork for what it will now cost you for just bare engine cases.

I'm waiting for the hobby to catch up to my other HD love; pre-70 sportsters. Still cheap now; but steadily rising.

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#25

Post by chuckthebeatertruck » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:53 pm

And, let's not forget we will soon have 4 choices on new cylinders:
V Twin
Whatever ACF is offering
Flathead Power (Anders -- not the S&S days)
Enfield Racing (alloy cylinders -- currently in testing)

For my money -- if I needed cylinders I'd either go used or alloy. I've had the pleasure of meeting and chatting with Anders a couple of times at Davenport -- his cylinders will be great. But, I've held those alloy cylinders in my hand . . .and know Bruce gets it right the first time. They are seriously trick and if I could convince Mrs. Chuck to let me waste some more bucks on the stable . . .they'd already be on order.

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#26

Post by Frankenstein » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:31 am

And the beat goes on... I'm still putting the AL cylinders to the test, they have given 100% satisfaction. Ran some expansion testing wrt to valve clearances, it would be feasible to run nil clearance cold. The intakes increased .004" thou cold to running temps, the exhaust .006" That was just one run on a Summers" day, and it takes about 15 minutes to get the 37-39 valve covers open to check. I'm only at about 3500 miles at this point, didn't get in all the riding I wanted to this year, Spent a lot of time on the "rain bike".
DD

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#27

Post by chuckthebeatertruck » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:34 pm

That is seriously interesting regarding the valve clearance. Thanks for sharing.

I'd venture to say 3500 mikes is several years of riding for many "riders" I know. ;-)

I really gotta work on the mrs.

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#28

Post by Holtvintage » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:51 pm

Mototechnic out of Germany also has aluminium jugs. At a slightly higher price than the regular cast.

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#29

Post by kitabel » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:34 pm

W/r/t/ seat repair: I've seen too many seat inserts loose, failed, etc. I'm sure a decent job can be done (how much interference fit plus metallurgy for both heat expansion + compatibility with the valve) but IDK exactly how.
Someone famous did a set (not for me, I did a post mortem) and it sure looked like brass (not bronze) press-fit and peened into place, and it almost escaped, held back by not being capable of jumping over the valve head. Imagine what the running engine sounded like...

Even some really sunk, rusted etc. seats can be made almost whole again with a large enough O/S valve. There's plenty of metal under the seat to reach. The keys to having it work properly:
1. the valve may have to be made bespoke, both for head OD and length
2. regardless of what the machinist will tell you, there is no geometry involved
3. for performance I would use a 30° intake seat, 7mm stem and bronze guide insert
4. once the seat is entirely fresh (all damage removed, but no deeper) the entire seat OD should be relieved at the seat angle - 15°: intake seat @ 15°, exhaust seat @ 30°
5. the head's valve pockets will need to be enlarged (for the diameter) and perhaps deepened
6. in addition, the relief (not the seat) area facing the bore should be extended (Dremel etc.) toward the bore center, with the depth parallel to the seat inclination w/r/t the bore axis (not parallel to the deck), and tapering away to flush with the deck before it reaches the bore edge

Sunk exhaust seats, where the valve has to be partially open just to reach the deck, is a major contributor to high cylinder temperature.

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Re: ULH CYLINDERS

#30

Post by Frankenstein » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:23 am

Just a reminder, Mototechnic cylinders are 74" only, 3 5/16 bore with an iron sleeve.
DD

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