STD Trans Case on ebay?

THis looks pretty good to me....

All Panhead related topics
Andygears
Posts: 849
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:25 am
Bikes: 1950 panhead, 1999 FLHTCI, 1987 FLHTC custom
Location: Daytona Beach
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 259 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#16

Post by Andygears »

I agree tho with RooDog to buy an old tranny and go thru it. Maybe three years ago, I bought a complete gear set from e-bay, new in box, for $350, at the time Andrews sets were $550. Complete trannys in a early case go between $700 and $1800 depending on year/rarity. The aftermarket gear sets get a bad rap because of quality but a lot of people are running them. A quality main shaft is important, good OEM used may be better than new AM.

Andygears



RooDog
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 2069
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm
Bikes: 1950 Panhead, Resto-Mod
1968 90", 5 Speed Shovelhead,
1984 Custom Built Evo 100" Bagger
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Has thanked: 982 times
Been thanked: 818 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#17

Post by RooDog »

If you are going with a belt drive, have you considered a stock Evo Softail transmission? One of my running buddies built his 84" '50 Panny with a BDL belt and the Softy tranny in his rigid framed chopper. hes had a kicker but dumped it in favor of the e-start easily adapted to his belt and tranny combo. The Evo tranny's are cheap, and can be geared to run all day at 80 MPH and still not lose the hole shot because the have a very low 3.24:1 1st gear. Just a thought about something I am familiar with.....

northeastconfederate
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:12 am
Bikes: 1952 FL
2002 FLHRI
Location: The Pines of NJ
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#18

Post by northeastconfederate »

RooDog wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:57 pm
So, what exactly is your skill level?
What parts do you have on hand? Where would you obtain the parts you don't already have available to you?
What are your dollar limits?
How is Baker's 6 in 4 absurd? Do you have any idea what it's going to cost you to assemble a tranny one part at a time? And do you really need 6 speeds? Unless you plan on doing a lot of 70-90 MPH highway miles an overdrive is not reasonable.
....RooDog.... 5 Speeds Forward, and happy....
Parts on hand: zero for the trans.
Skill level: High. I was a Mercedes-Benz tech for about 17 years. I have built a 1974 Ironhead chopper with 4-1/2" S&S stroker wheels. This bike was a basket case when I got it. Overhauled the trans as well as every other thing on this bike. My '02 Twin Cam is an "all bore" 107 which I built (not including case boring and cylinder boring/honing). I just finished putting an Ultima 6-speed "builder's kit" in this bike, but installed a Baker shift drum, forks, and pawl. This required turnning the 4th shift fork shaft a little, as the Baker fork uses a smaller shaft than the Ultima. I was a mechanic at a hot rod bike shop for a little while, and built a rotater-top 4-speed for a late 70's Super Glide among other projects while there. I've worked on Flatheads, Shovels, Ironheads, Evo's and Twin Cams. Never a Pan. I have a small (10" swing) lathe and an old Bridgeport Miller as well as misc other shop tools. I sort of know how to use most of them.

What's my budget? Shoestring.

Any idea of cost 1 piece at a time? Brings to mind a Johnny Cash song.....

Why is Baker absurd? $3,000 for a transmission isn't absurd? Looks like complete Andrew's gearsets are around $800, unless I'm mistaken. Seems like I ought to be able to put a box together for maybe half that. Am I dreaming?

Not sure I addressed all the questions, but I think so.

northeastconfederate
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:12 am
Bikes: 1952 FL
2002 FLHRI
Location: The Pines of NJ
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#19

Post by northeastconfederate »

Oh, do I need six speeds? Well, I do in my Road King. ALWAYS looking for another gear. Will I ride this Pan the way I ride the RK? Probably not... But it would be nice to be able to.

I hadn't considered the Softail trans idea. I want this bike to be kick start. And the side cover of a ST trans will stick out like a sore thumb on a Pan, it seems to me. Then again, 5 gears would be better than 4.... Might be something to consider. I definitely hadn't. Interesting idea.

northeastconfederate
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:12 am
Bikes: 1952 FL
2002 FLHRI
Location: The Pines of NJ
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#20

Post by northeastconfederate »

RooDog, got any pix of the '50 Pan with Evo trans?

RooDog
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 2069
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm
Bikes: 1950 Panhead, Resto-Mod
1968 90", 5 Speed Shovelhead,
1984 Custom Built Evo 100" Bagger
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Has thanked: 982 times
Been thanked: 818 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#21

Post by RooDog »

I tried to get pics of Spiders ST tranny, but my cell phone took a crap, and I don't carry my real camera around with me on a regular basis, sorry....
Both V Twin, and Ultima offer a close fitting kicker kit.
As far as you RKs highway gearing: You have enough motor to pull a smaller rear wheel pulley, I use a 65T, and you can bump up the tranny pulley a tooth or two too. The overdrive scam is just a myth and not need with 107"....Just my opinion and I only have 100 inches in my Big Red Evo but it was happy at 80 riding in a tight club pack.

northeastconfederate
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:12 am
Bikes: 1952 FL
2002 FLHRI
Location: The Pines of NJ
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#22

Post by northeastconfederate »

RooDog, I don't agree with you on upsizing the trans pulley and downsizing the rear wheel pulley on the 107. I have a 34 tooth trans pulley sitting on the shelf (stock is 32). I put it in when I lived in Vegas (nothing but endless hiways out there - it was awful) and didn't like the loss of giddyup on the bottom end, despite the motor. When I moved back east, I put the stock pulley back in. Like I said, I'm always looking for an extra gear. So that bike got the 6 speed gearset just this year. Haven't even ridden it yet with the new gearset.

As for the Pan trans, I've looked at Softail 5 speeds and can't get past the clutch release cover looking out of place on a Pan. I'm now looking at rotary top 4 speeds on ebay, which seem relatively inexpensive. I suppose a rotary top 4 speed is almost as out of place on a Pan as a 5 speed, but at least it doesn't have the huge starter mount casting sticking up off it; and the end cover - while not like a Pan cover, isn't as modern as an Evo or TC 5 speed. I think maybe that's the way to go.

BTW, a genuine STD 4 speed case has shown up on ebay, and there are notable differences compared to the one I originally asked about. One interesting feature is that it will accept either ratchet or rotary tops. But, after this discussion, it seems much more prudent to buy a complete trans of some sort, and I think maybe a rotary top 4 speed might be the way to go. In large part because they're seem relatively affordable. Though, that will result in oil tank clearance issues... Damn. No easy way, is there???

RooDog
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 2069
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm
Bikes: 1950 Panhead, Resto-Mod
1968 90", 5 Speed Shovelhead,
1984 Custom Built Evo 100" Bagger
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Has thanked: 982 times
Been thanked: 818 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#23

Post by RooDog »

When you say six speed, is it an OD, or a DD-6? I live in East Tennessee, we have interstates, country roads, and hills/mountains. and the Dragon is like only 40 miles from where I live. I run 5 speeds in both my 90" 68 Shovelhead, and the 100" Big Red Evo Bagger, I highway cruise at 70-80 MPH all day long, or as much as my old ass can handle. I have enough gears. Remember the fiver has a super low, 3.24:1 first gear to begin with so a smaller rear pulley shouldn't hurt, I run a 65T on the back, don't remember what's on the tranny, probably a 33. Stock Pans and FL Shovels had a 3.0, and the FXs did 2.4 something. But, whatever makes you happy.....
....RooDog....

northeastconfederate
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:12 am
Bikes: 1952 FL
2002 FLHRI
Location: The Pines of NJ
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#24

Post by northeastconfederate »

It's an OD6. .86:1 ratio in 6th. I'm in Central NJ. I should look you up next time we're down your way. We've made a couple trips to Maggie Valley, NC and spent a few days riding around the mountain roads down there. Love it! If I can keep the RPM at 3200 or below, I get pretty decent mileage, close to 40mpg. But as soon as the RPM gets above that, the bike guzzles fuel. I hate sweating that I'm going to run out of gas when I'm touring. The RK has 5 gal tanks, but there's really only 4.6 usable gal in there. I'll run 80-85 mph for hours at a time when we're going somewhere, like down 81 towards you; or north to upstate NY, or wherever. So I wanted the OD gear for those kinds of rides. Hell, even on local roads, the local 2-lane hiways I often run 70 mph. 70mph = about 3100 rpm, so not too bad on the gas, but dropping it down to 2600 rpm should make it drink a little less.

A couple of summers ago, my wife and I went up to Syracuse, NY area to meet up with a buddy at his sister's house. My wife drove the car, and I forgot to put the passenger seat on. I didn't realize it until I was over 50 miles into the trip. Hauled ass home, put the seat on, and hauled ass back the way I'd come, across the PA turnpike and up the Northeast extension. I think I was going 90 most of the way. I ran out of gas on the NE Ext. Luckily, it was mostly downhill when I ran out. I coasted a couple of miles, through the tool gate, down the exit ramp, onto route 11, got extremely lucky and hit the light green just after the entrance onto 11, and into the gas station on the opposite side of the road just past the light. Had to push up the parking lot apron and to the pump. Ran out of gas that time at 146 miles. Before I built the big motor, when it was 95", I could go 185 miles before I had to fill up. If I was real gentle and didn't go too fast, I could go nearly 200 miles. My buddy has a '14 Ultra with a 6 gal tank (and the factory 6 speed, which is 1:1 in 6th, but geared differently than mine, so his rpm are a little lower). When we're out alone, we GO. I'd like to be able to go the distance without stopping for gas until we both need it. He has a really hot 124" and still gets better mileage than me (in addition to having the 6 gal tank). So I know the OD is going to help me.

RooDog
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 2069
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm
Bikes: 1950 Panhead, Resto-Mod
1968 90", 5 Speed Shovelhead,
1984 Custom Built Evo 100" Bagger
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Has thanked: 982 times
Been thanked: 818 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#25

Post by RooDog »

Her'e something to look at. Note that the seller states he has several different length main shafts to choose from.....
https://www.throttleaddiction.com/shove ... ssion-raw/
....RooDog.....

RooDog
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 2069
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm
Bikes: 1950 Panhead, Resto-Mod
1968 90", 5 Speed Shovelhead,
1984 Custom Built Evo 100" Bagger
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Has thanked: 982 times
Been thanked: 818 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#26

Post by RooDog »


socalrider
Posts: 407
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:22 am
Bikes: 1963 pankenstein ; 1965 flh ; 1978 shovelhead lowrider
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#27

Post by socalrider »

[quote=RooDog post_id=131698 time=1575727878 user_id=9004]
This should be the tranny you will need for your '52 Bobber. Pictured is the beginnings of my build shown in my avatar, it is a 1950 and will be fitted with a SuperMax belt drive. Note the tapered motor sprocket shaft and also the transmission main shaft's short length. It also has a later model, 1952 & newer, ratchet lid, which you may or may not want, but I would suggest having one. Buy a complete tranny and then make it right, thus making it yours, You will gain a vast amount of knowledge, and in the long run be dollar$ ahead than if you have a shop build it for you.
Be sure to have both the Harley Parts, and Service manuals for your build. Avoid like the plague the evil ones, Clymer, Haynes, and Chilton manuals, there is just enough misinformation to get you into trouble....
....RooDog....
DSC01708.JPGDSC01740.JPGDSC01843.JPG
[/quote]

Roodog, where did you source the supermax belt drive? They are said to be top of the line, very quiet and last forever due to the material used to make them. I thought they closed shop due to the passing of the owner.

RooDog
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 2069
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm
Bikes: 1950 Panhead, Resto-Mod
1968 90", 5 Speed Shovelhead,
1984 Custom Built Evo 100" Bagger
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Has thanked: 982 times
Been thanked: 818 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#28

Post by RooDog »

SoCal....
This is a tough pill to swallow, but Phil Ross's SuperMax is out of business. Phil died several years ago, and his brother and wife couldn't keep it up and running. So, I got one of the last ones about four years ago.
I was very pleased with the Super Max setup. The down side is if I ever need a replacement belt, it will be very hard to find as it is 14mm X 38mm (1.5" wide) and 80 tooth count. Most commonly available 14mm belts are 78T. Gates or Unioyal may have something close, but I have not actually had one in hand.
Sorry that the good stuff dies with the founder. Just like Alan Sputhe, and the $&$ Family....
.....RooDog....

bobberguy
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:06 pm
Bikes: 56 FLH
Location: Peoria, Arizona
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#29

Post by bobberguy »

RooDog

It is really strange you mention Phil Ross and Alan Sputhe in the same post. In the early eighties I broke the belt on my 78 Low Rider and couldn't find a replacement. Got Phil's phone number and called. He asked how I broke it. I told him how I was showing off my fresh S&S 93 inch motor (dual plug heads flowed with stainless Manley valves and bronze guides, B grind cam, remember that stuff) by doing burn outs. He told me to send both pulleys and the broken belt. A few days later I get two new pulleys and a new belt but no bill. I called and he said it's free under warranty. I did talk him into selling me a spare belt (which I never needed or used). Talked to him quite a bit and he told me the whole sorry Harley story. What a great guy. As far as Alan Sputhe I used one of his kits on my 76 Sporty chopper with Smith Brothers and Fetro tig welded frame (a work of art). Fun times. All the good guys are going away.

bobberguy

RooDog
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 2069
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm
Bikes: 1950 Panhead, Resto-Mod
1968 90", 5 Speed Shovelhead,
1984 Custom Built Evo 100" Bagger
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Has thanked: 982 times
Been thanked: 818 times

Re: STD Trans Case on ebay?

#30

Post by RooDog »

I had the opportunity to spend some time with Alan at a dealer show in Indy probably 20 or more years ago. He had several of his one off experimental engines on display and was mor than happy to talk me through each one of them. The man was a genius. I have several of his products on my '68 Shovelhead: 5:4 tranny case with one of his billet trap doors, and his nose cone cam & ignition cam cover conversion for a generator engine. My parts guy & beer drinking buddy, has one of his 100" FatVo engine kits. Again, his family too is running his business, but not too well, as we can not score another FatVo kit, too bad....
....RooDog....
Jim Fueling is another industry giant, gone but not forgotten....

Read more about Phil Ross and his SuperMax belt drives.... And The MoCo....
http://supermax.net/

Post Reply

Return to “Panhead”